Zeusthecat Posted June 10, 2015 I really liked your discussion on Trigun. I haven't seen Badlands Rumble but I've watched the series proper about a half dozen times and it is one of my favorites. I think I fall a little bit more on Twig's side that the first half of the anime was better than the second half. I really felt like Vash's goofy antics were part of that show's identity and that evaporated entirely in the second half. I still really like the whole thing but the mix of goofy shit with really badass human feats just hit all the right notes for me. Just in case, I guess I should spoiler this other stuff: Reveal hidden contents And my understanding wasn't that Vash was really immortal, but that he was some kind of evolved plant or tree-like species that just had a really long lifespan and better problem solving skills and reflexes than normal humans, making him seem super human. I think I even remember the show insinuating that Vash waits outside of that ship for something like 100 years while Millions Knives makes their special guns and that it was no big deal for him because of his tree-like nature. It's probably been about a decade since I saw the last 10 or so episodes so I could be off on some of that. Also, one thing that always frustrated me a little bit is that when they were kids and Vash makes his promise to Rem, there is a scene where Vash saves an insect from being eaten by a spider and his brother points out that now the spider will die because it needed to eat that insect to survive. It's pretty foolproof logic but Vash somehow isn't able to accept that through his hundreds of years of living and only does when he is faced with the choice of either killing Legato or doing nothing and letting him mind control a bunch of villagers to kill each other. In a sense, I guess Million Knives actually got to prove his point and "won". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted June 10, 2015 On 6/10/2015 at 7:12 PM, Zeusthecat said: Reveal hidden contents And my understanding wasn't that Vash was really immortal, but that he was some kind of evolved plant or tree-like species that just had a really long lifespan and better problem solving skills and reflexes than normal humans, making him seem super human. I think I even remember the show insinuating that Vash waits outside of that ship for something like 100 years while Millions Knives makes their special guns and that it was no big deal for him because of his tree-like nature. It's probably been about a decade since I saw the last 10 or so episodes so I could be off on some of that. Also, one thing that always frustrated me a little bit is that when they were kids and Vash makes his promise to Rem, there is a scene where Vash saves an insect from being eaten by a spider and his brother points out that now the spider will die because it needed to eat that insect to survive. It's pretty foolproof logic but Vash somehow isn't able to accept that through his hundreds of years of living and only does when he is faced with the choice of either killing Legato or doing nothing and letting him mind control a bunch of villagers to kill each other. In a sense, I guess Million Knives actually got to prove his point and "won". Reveal hidden contents According to the manga, which goes into a bit more detail on the concept of "plants," they are genetically engineered post-humans designed to be self-monitoring producers of energy for the colonial fleet. Vash and Knives were accidentally born from a female plant on one of the spaceships, not that there even were male plants before them to make that distinction. Turns out, female plants make creative energy and male plants make destructive energy. I believe both sexes live as long as they have energy to expend, which is measured by the darkness of their hair. That's the reason that Vash's hair is slightly darker than Knives' hair, owing to the July Incident and later the Fifth Moon Incident. Anyway, one of the things I love the most about Trigun now that I'm twenty-nine and not nineteen is that two children have a fight about life, death, and moral necessity, which ultimately grows into a centuries-long disagreement that costs thousands of lives to resolve. It's not very realistic, but who knows for beings on that scale of lifetime and consciousness? I agree that Knives is fundamentally right, but Rem's romanticism is more appealing to Vash, so he defends her side instead, leading him to adopt her philosophy wholesale. Accordingly, Knives destroys the fleet and then spends decades making Vash miserable, sensing rightly that the memory and philosophy of Rem is the thing standing between them being true brothers again, but in the process becomes a horrible and twisted creature whose pragmatism is an excuse for sadism. I actually think the anime does a better job of bringing this out than the manga, which is the reverse of the usual state of affairs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeusthecat Posted June 10, 2015 On 6/10/2015 at 7:34 PM, Gormongous said: Reveal hidden contents According to the manga, which goes into a bit more detail on the concept of "plants," they are genetically engineered post-humans designed to be self-monitoring producers of energy for the colonial fleet. Vash and Knives were accidentally born from a female plant on one of the spaceships, not that there even were male plants before them to make that distinction. Turns out, female plants make creative energy and male plants make destructive energy. I believe both sexes live as long as they have energy to expend, which is measured by the darkness of their hair. That's the reason that Vash's hair is slightly darker than Knives' hair, owing to the July Incident and later the Fifth Moon Incident. Anyway, one of the things I love the most about Trigun now that I'm twenty-nine and not nineteen is that two children have a fight about life, death, and moral necessity, which ultimately grows into a centuries-long disagreement that costs thousands of lives to resolve. It's not very realistic, but who knows for beings on that scale of lifetime and consciousness? I agree that Knives is fundamentally right, but Rem's romanticism is more appealing to Vash, so he defends her side instead, leading him to adopt her philosophy wholesale. Accordingly, Knives destroys the fleet and then spends decades making Vash miserable, sensing rightly that the memory and philosophy of Rem is the thing standing between them being true brothers again, but in the process becomes a horrible and twisted creature whose pragmatism is an excuse for sadism. I actually think the anime does a better job of bringing this out than the manga, which is the reverse of the usual state of affairs. Thanks for the info! I always found Vash's and Knives' backstories to be really interesting. Also, one other thing wasn't clear to me: Reveal hidden contents Did Knives actually die at the end or was it insinuated that since Vash defeated him, he wouldn't have any further reason to cause any trouble? Vash carries his body away at the end but for some reason I always thought he was just unconscious and that Vash beating him just meant that he "won" their hundred years disagreement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted June 10, 2015 Reveal hidden contents Knives absolutely lives. Vash's intent in confronting Knives is, as I understand it, to convince Knives that life is worth preserving (and, I mean, to stop him from killing more innocent people), and he hasn't yet done that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted June 10, 2015 On 6/10/2015 at 8:18 PM, Zeusthecat said: Thanks for the info! I always found Vash's and Knives' backstories to be really interesting. Also, one other thing wasn't clear to me: Reveal hidden contents Did Knives actually die at the end or was it insinuated that since Vash defeated him, he wouldn't have any further reason to cause any trouble? Vash carries his body away at the end but for some reason I always thought he was just unconscious and that Vash beating him just meant that he "won" their hundred years disagreement. On 6/10/2015 at 8:19 PM, Twig said: Reveal hidden contents Knives absolutely lives. Vash's intent in confronting Knives is, as I understand it, to convince Knives that life is worth preserving (and, I mean, to stop him from killing more innocent people), and he hasn't yet done that. Reveal hidden contents Yeah, it seems from the dialogue that there's meant to be a tension over what Rem meant by "taking care" of Knives, but the implication at the end is that Vash has proven to Knives that nonviolence has not made him weak and presumably that Vash is now going to look after Knives and be a proper brother in his own way. I don't know, it's an abrupt but pleasant ending for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gaizokubanou Posted June 10, 2015 About half way through (just got to the part where you guys are about to talk about Trigun), going to finish after doing bit more work. Good podcast guys. I hope one day you guys will cover Gundam (or mecha in general) then please please please let me join I wanna talk about 0080, 08th, 0083, Z, ZZ, Char's Counter Attack, F91, Seed, Seed Destiny, 00, Macross Plus, Eureka 7, Gargantia... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N1njaSquirrel Posted June 10, 2015 The only mecha anime I've seen are EVA and Gargantia. I loved Gargantia. I'm super bummed that they cancelled the second season. T_T Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gaizokubanou Posted June 10, 2015 On 6/10/2015 at 9:58 PM, N1njaSquirrel said: The only mecha anime I've seen are EVA and Gargantia. I loved Gargantia. I'm super bummed that they cancelled the second season. T_T Maybe this is too spoilery and not to argue (cause I get why people do this and makes lot of sense) but I'm having hard time personally labeling EVA as mecha genre :x Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted June 10, 2015 On 6/10/2015 at 9:55 PM, Gaizokubanou said: About half way through (just got to the part where you guys are about to talk about Trigun), going to finish after doing bit more work. Good podcast guys. I hope one day you guys will cover Gundam (or mecha in general) then please please please let me join I wanna talk about 0080, 08th, 0083, Z, ZZ, Char's Counter Attack, F91, Seed, Seed Destiny, 00, Macross Plus, Eureka 7, Gargantia... I would love to do an episode spotlighting Macross: Do You Remember Love? I'm also one of those people who only knows mecha through its deconstructions, but I've been repeatedly tempted by Macross and by Turn A Gundam, for some reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gaizokubanou Posted June 10, 2015 Macross: Do You Remember Love? has a really cool premise (execution is clearly dated though)... trying to watch Turn A Gundam myself and looking for good affordable and legal source. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted June 10, 2015 man i'm just sad now i fucking loved gargantia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted June 10, 2015 On 6/10/2015 at 10:11 PM, Gaizokubanou said: Macross: Do You Remember Love? has a really cool premise (execution is clearly dated though)... trying to watch Turn A Gundam myself and looking for good affordable and legal source. Turn A Gundam is finally getting a Region 1 release from RightStuf, the first big thing from their exclusive partnership with Sunrise, but I remember that you're maybe in a different region of the world? Anyway, it's one that I've always been curious about, especially because one of my favorite anime bloggers talks so fondly about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gaizokubanou Posted June 10, 2015 On 6/10/2015 at 10:14 PM, Twig said: man i'm just sad now i fucking loved gargantia It was like Reveal hidden contents splatoon with mecha anime before splatoon On 6/10/2015 at 10:15 PM, Gormongous said: Turn A Gundam is finally getting a Region 1 release from RightStuf, the first big thing from their exclusive partnership with Sunrise, but I remember that you're maybe in a different region of the world? Anyway, it's one that I've always been curious about, especially because one of my favorite anime bloggers talks so fondly about it. Thanks thanks~ I'm in USA now (immigrated from Korea though (like longggg time ago)) so I think I'm in Region 1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N1njaSquirrel Posted June 10, 2015 On 6/10/2015 at 10:14 PM, Twig said: man i'm just sad now i fucking loved gargantia If it's any consolation, they super recently released an OVA of them at a beach or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted June 11, 2015 Huh? I would've assumed it would've continued the first ova which was actually about something and ended without ending. I hope you're wrong! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N1njaSquirrel Posted June 11, 2015 Maybe. I got all my information of it from Sankaku Complex (Warning, Super NSFW), which is always a bad way to read any anime news. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted June 11, 2015 Oh. Yeah that was in the first episode but didn't last all that long, or I ignored it and wanted to believe it didn't last all that long. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted June 11, 2015 Alright! For a variety of reasons, we've postponed the recording of episode two to next weekend. Here's the signup link for times, if you're interest: http://doodle.com/aw4f85pvcgdu2rqc As has been alluded earlier in this thread, we'll be watching Time of Eve, a movie about robots and humanity. It was available on Crunchyroll for free, but now it's not, except for the first "act," which you should watch if you're interested: http://www.crunchyroll.com/time-of-eve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N1njaSquirrel Posted June 11, 2015 Only the first episode is free, unless you are a premium member, whereby it's all there. If you want a free guest pass for 48 hours, try one of these: TQFMYN9D9UM N6TVQWVVGLG A634EAQEWXT 8JGLFLQ4UL3 B33B6JW436T also, I've finally gotten round to listening to episode 01. All this talk of sports anime and not one mention of Ping-Pong! It's visually unlike 'normal' anime, and it's story is so charachter driven, they don't even show the final match. Also the opening is superb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZrm7e6Ly14 The best bit: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted June 11, 2015 I didn't mention Ping Pong cause it's not a sports anime!!!!!! It is, however, an anime about sports. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Codicier Posted June 11, 2015 On 6/11/2015 at 7:56 PM, Twig said: I didn't mention Ping Pong cause it's not a sports anime!!!!!! It is, however, an anime about sports. Ok then Mr Wiseguy define "A sports anime"! (also "Not Ping Pong" doesn't count) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted June 11, 2015 I was mostly joking but I have mentioned before that Ping Pong doesn't really follow the sports anime genre structure and flow, which is why, when I talk about "sports anime", I don't often bring it up. Chihayafuru, on the other hand, almost exactly follows the genre tropes, it just puts a little more emphasis on relationships between players (although, really not THAT much more emphasis, since that's still a big element of what makes a sports anime good). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mangela Lansbury Posted June 12, 2015 On 6/11/2015 at 7:08 PM, Gormongous said: Alright! For a variety of reasons, we've postponed the recording of episode two to next weekend. Here's the signup link for times, if you're interest: http://doodle.com/aw4f85pvcgdu2rqc As has been alluded earlier in this thread, we'll be watching Time of Eve, a movie about robots and humanity. It was available on Crunchyroll for free, but now it's not, except for the first "act," which you should watch if you're interested: http://www.crunchyroll.com/time-of-eve I was going to try and join in, but I can't seem to put what I think about Time of Eve into words good, even after rewatching it. Have fun, y'all! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted June 12, 2015 Pff you think I have any idea what I'm gonna say before the cast starts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
