Idle Weekend May 13, 2016: Just, like, your opinion, man

[Rob Zacny]

Idle Weekend May 13, 2016:

Just, like, your opinion, man

The weekenders examine the curious case of a game critic who... gave his opinion on a video game. Then the game's publisher told its fans that it's ok for a critic to do such a thing. It's the curious case of Stellaris! Elsewhere, the weekenders ponder sexism in games they enjoy and tackle Captain America: Civil War.

Stellaris, Fallout 4, Street Fighter 5, Alien: Isolation, The Witcher 3, Dragon's Crown, Captain America: Civil War

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[spacerumsfeld]

I think it is less about a "grievance culture" and more about the demographic that populates game message boards. Rob's comment about "game culture" is on point, I think. I was reading these same types of comments as letters to the editor in Computer Gaming World 20 years ago.

[ilitarist]

Funny how you denouncing toxic commenters for conspiracy theories turned into conspiracy theory of 400 evil vocal assholes.

 

Sympathise with Rowan. The score thing is just misleading, the review itself is full of hope for Stellaris. If I hadn't buy it beforehands it wouldn't stop me from buying it. Glad both he and Paradox reacted to the issue as grown ups.

[Valorian Endymion]

I do agree with Rob that maybe that kind of stuff happening might sometimes by because a very similar group of people, which for one reason or another, build their entire personas around that way of thinking and now, since they can´t keep their personas unless there is something, therefor they will keep fishing for anything. So much, that when you think about, Stellaris nor Rowan themselves might have nothing do to, just coincidence and some crosswire here and there (If understand from the podcast,  Bradwell was involved? that might helped the attention) that somehow managed to get in their radar, also the fact that maybe hadn´t anything else to go - I mean, except maybe a review of Uncharted (I think on IGN, I am not sure), that might also got that kind of attention due criticism or lower score (and If I remember right, even it was not a low score at all, it was 8 point something, and yes some people still go angry).

 

Something I noticed, when I was following more closely Heroes of Might and Magic fan base, is the away around that kind of reaction, where people don´t get angry with you for low score, they got mad if you give high score to a game they didn´t like (or they decided to not like), this often happened with Heroes, due Heroes III success casting a weird shadow, where other games, would viewed by part of the fanbase with disdain (and lots of rosed tinted nostalgia glasses) and people which dared to enjoyed them (and given higher scores) looked down, despite any potential merit they could had. I do remember that during Civ V launch, seeing people way too angry that someone dared to like civ 5....not that there wasn´t thing to criticize, but you could spot those posts, that might be similar to what Rowan got, ready to make some "theories" of how this or that review got this or that score....but inverse in tone.

Moving to the subject to character creation:

 

There was a curious transition from early 80-90 rpg games, which often where direct ports of tabletop systems, that due that for one side, they offer a greater sense of the character you build begin something you did, in sense of self-expression, but also, due complexity, lead to entire games with overcomplicated rules and dead ends that could ruin our experience. From this we moved to a almost too light systems, where nothing you created did matter and there was less sense of self-expression or trade off. Just compare Daggerfall, where unless you know, it was easy to build a unplayable character at later levels (things like choosing any of the language skill was sure doom, good luck trying to level up that, or choose weakness to paralisis, which would also get you killed once you meet up with Ancient Vampires or Liches), to Skyrim, where despite I loving the game, the fact  you could level up all skills, sometimes make all my character look the same.

 

Oh, one more thing - I do like, the mix between sci-fi and fantasy, that is one reason some of my favorite rpgs where Might and Magic and Final Fantasy.

[rincewitch]

I have kind of the opposite anxiety over RPG character creation, where I always happily dump points into conversation/lockpicking/etc. skills to unlock story but then feel profound anxiety over worrying if I've made the combat impossible for myself-- whether through using points frivolously or, more likely, just spending my points "wrong" or picking a bad build or optimizing poorly. Occasionally, this has actually happened-- I never did beat Shadowrun: Dragonfall because at a certain point it was just way too hard for me and I felt like my character (at my skill level-- I'm pretty bad at most games) was in an unwinnable situation, so even though I was totally into the story and setting of the game I felt like I'd hit a brick wall in difficulty and I was locked into a character build that made it insurmountable. And because things like that have happened a few times, I get hugely worried every time I play a new game with new systems to master and wonder if I'll accidentally make it impossible for me to beat.

 

I'm kind of glad my favorite RPGs from Bioware tend to have an easy mode that's easy enough I can just pick whatever seems cool and then be reasonably confident I'll make it to the end. And I guess I'm the target audience for things like when WoW drastically simplified its spec system, or FFXIV just not having specs at all, just a single stat your job should point points into.

[Lechimp]

Danielle and Rob's discussion about how the Marvel Cinematic Universe basically goes back to the status quo at the end of each movie is kind of why I don't read Marvel or DC's comics anymore except for story arcs that people recommend.

[Gamebeast23456]

The characterization of what the 'audience' for game criticism seemed immensely insular. I was particularly confused by Rob's comment that the only audience he cares about are the people who seek out his work and... talk to him on twitter? If this is the extent to which game criticism is relevant, basically other critics and a few people who want to be critics, then I see literally no future for the profession. Especially since I don't think formalist writing about a game is really that good of a way to gauge if I would enjoy or find something interesting in a product or not. I much prefer naturalistic settings like podcasts or videos where people play and respond to a game. In fact, perhaps I epitomize bad, not-in-the-audience internet users because I almost never read review texts and only look at the aggregate of scores to see if there are any glaring technical flaws with a game (because most consumer-oriented websites factor that stuff in), and make my purchasing decisions mostly based on anecdotes beyond that. 

 

For example, I bought Hitman after a discussion on Idle Thumbs, and Stellaris after Austin's labor union story on the Beastcast and the GB quick look. 

[SuperBiasedMan]

Please play Stellaris Danielle! My response to the whole 'suitable' reviewer part of the controversy was that I'd like to hear the thoughts of someone who isn't deep in grand strategy. I've played Crusader Kings 2 but it's literally the only strategy game I've played in recent years, so I definitely feel like a bit of an outsider who's having fun with my goofy space people and I'd like to hear how Danielle responds.

[DocRandal]

Because this is the only place I know Danielle will look. I'll finish the podcast tonight and comment something relevant to stay on topic.

 

[DukeofChutney]

I think games journalists massively underestimate how personally a lot of people take their work. I know quite a few people who from time to time get upset or angry at a review, and these people are not internet idiots. 

 

I'm not entirely sure why this is, i think perhaps its because some people wrap up their taste in games and view of what is good or bad into their sense of identity. Consequently they see a a negative view of something they love as a slight against them, or their intellect. 

 

I tend to disagree with my favoured journos quite a bit, but i find their opinions interesting and like their prose or video style. 

 

 

I'm surprised Danielle finds boxing forums better than video games. I tend to read blh which is pretty reasonable but i've seen a lot of stuff on boxing forums that would get moderated straight out of most other forums.

[Athis]

New-ish listener here. Idle weekends is a favorite podcast at the moment. Thanks to Rob and Danielle; you guys are a perfect match. Thanks

 

The discussion about haters in comments interested me. Bottom line is there are a lot of people out there who just dont have any manners or any restraints on what they will write in a comment. Also there are organised groups of bigots and the like who flock and try to raise a rightwing ruckus about gender issues or anything to do with social justice etc. They object to people having equal rights; or the right to be who they are - if that is different from them. And there is nothing anyone can do about those people. That is just the way they are. They believe that is the right and good way to be. I have encountered people who sincerely believe that God hates anyone who has a different opinion to them.... and therefore so should they. The only way to deal with that is to adapt to it; because you cannot change it. What I hope you wont do is become cynical and lose faith and give-up on everyone else because of a few bigoted idiots (idiots for instance who make a white supremacist mod for a game; or mount campaigns against a game because there is a gay or transgender character)

By the way I heard Rowan's contributions to the TMA discussion and to be honest I got the impression he didn't quite get the game. There were instances when stuff that was annoying him and leading him to a negative attitude turned out to be just him not knowing the interface well enough. But I do get what you had to say about reviews being opinions and I am not about to send him a death threat.