Twin Peaks Rewatch 37: The Return, Part 3

[richardco]

So I think it was in this episode that Cooper shows up in the New York box?

 

So chronologically Cooper shows up before the Murderous Video Effect. Is it possible the Video Effect is chasing/following him?

[MarkHoog]

  On 5/23/2017 at 11:10 PM, bioshrimp said:

 

How can I upvote this?

 

I don't know. I'll ask my pine cone.

[Jake]

  On 5/24/2017 at 12:49 AM, richardco said:

So I think it was in this episode that Cooper shows up in the New York box?

 

So chronologically Cooper shows up before the Murderous Video Effect. Is it possible the Video Effect is chasing/following him?

Cooper passed through the box in ep 2 right at the end, and that was my feeling too: that he was being chased/followed. 

[WickedCestus]

Some random thoughts:

- I really like that Cooper has now finally become the "old man slowly walking through the scene". I think this is what the whole series has been leading up to.

- The scene in the Sheriff's department is one that definitely feels like it could've used musical accompaniment. It kind of reminded me of videos where people strip the laugh track out of sitcoms. I still enjoyed it, although the dynamic where it seems like Hawk is just barely managing put up with Lucy and Andy's nonsense paints a very different picture of the sheriff's department than the friendly atmosphere of the original series.

- The set dressing of Gordon Cole's office stuck out to me. Behind his desk, a giant photograph of a nuclear mushroom cloud, and in front, a portrait of Franz Kafka?

- The person who's sitting on the couch after Cooper returns from the blind woman's sacrifice is Ronette Polaski. I feel like her involvement in the original series was really weird, especially how she got pulled into the sheriff's office during the final episode, only to disappear again. It would be interesting to see her story given a bigger role.
 

[Gattman]

Random thought was anyone reminded of

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Andy in the Pilot of S1 when they saw Bobby crying over the photo of Laura?

Edited May 24, 2017 by Gattman
typo

[OscarSWALK]

  On 5/23/2017 at 2:54 PM, Jake said:

His room number at the great northern is 315. I don't have anything other than that, but those numbers did turn up in that order quite a long time ago (and we're reminded of it when the woman pulls out the key from cooper's pocket thinking he's Dougie.)

Whilst I did notice this, I had theorised and then believed that the only reason for this was so the room opposite was 314 or pi. There are plenty of shots in the earlier seasons with this being shown and I only took this to be a little easter egg. There could however be a new reason for this number which I am looking forward to find out! 

[James]

  On 5/24/2017 at 5:05 AM, WickedCestus said:

- The set dressing of Gordon Cole's office stuck out to me. Behind his desk, a giant photograph of a nuclear mushroom cloud, and in front, a portrait of Franz Kafka?

For me that was probably the funniest thing in the show up to that point. I want that office. 

[Bjorn]

  On 5/24/2017 at 5:05 AM, WickedCestus said:

- The set dressing of Gordon Cole's office stuck out to me. Behind his desk, a giant photograph of a nuclear mushroom cloud, and in front, a portrait of Franz Kafka?

 

 

I didn't pick up on the portrait of Kafka. 

 

Edited to spoiler this, because I realized what I'm referencing is from Ep 4 (relationship to Kafka work):

 

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Which is funny, because I have thought of The Metamorphosis several times through these episodes, particularly with the Dougie portion of his family trying to interact with him after the swap. 

 

[Nappi]

I enjoyed this episode a lot more than the previous two. I hope this means that the plot "normalizes" a bit at least for a while, because all that red room stuff was getting a bit numbing. 

 

The one thing I actively disliked in this episode is the drug addict mom and her child. I hope that they at least go somewhere with it and not just use the imagery as a cheap way to highlight how fucked up the world is or whatever.

 

Also better brush up on my knowledge on numerology I guess.

[Jake]

  On 5/24/2017 at 9:45 PM, Nappi said:

I enjoyed this episode a lot more than the previous two. I hope this means that the plot "normalizes" a bit at least for a while, because all that red room stuff was getting a bit numbing. 

 

The one thing I actively disliked in this episode is the drug addict mom and her child. I hope that they at least go somewhere with it and not just use the imagery as a cheap way to highlight how fucked up the world is or whatever.

 

Also better brush up on my knowledge on numerology I guess.

 

I saw it proposed that she may be Lodge related, as 119 (the numbers she recites, unless I'm mistaken) is 911 backwards?

[pabosher]

  On 5/25/2017 at 12:25 AM, Jake said:

 

I saw it proposed that she may be Lodge related, as 119 (the numbers she recites, unless I'm mistaken) is 911 backwards?

 

Yeah, I thought that immediately as well.

 

The thing I find pretty interesting here, that Jake and Chris touched on in the Episode 2 podcast, is how Bad Coop is acting, and how BOB would have acted had we ever seen him speak.

 

But there is a chance to hear that! It's in the European pilot, at the very end, we see BOB cornered by Harry, Dale and Mike. I know it's not canonical (if you've seen it, that's pretty self-explanatory) but it is still pretty interesting to see an idea of this spirit, this killer, that Lynch/Frost must have conceived originally.

 

And, to be honest, I find it far more effective than the BOB we do see in the show; I like BOB as this visceral, emotional representation of evil as opposed to some regular serial killer.

 

I think it also relates to another thing chris and Jake talked about - Lynch's two sensibilities: whenever it's a weird, grainy, almost comical film effect, I think it's not meant to signify much, if anything - I think it's purely to achieve some kind of audience gut reaction; whenever it's a good, well-done effect, that's when it's meaningful in some way. 

[Nicky]

  On 5/24/2017 at 5:05 AM, WickedCestus said:

- The person who's sitting on the couch after Cooper returns from the blind woman's sacrifice is Ronette Polaski. I feel like her involvement in the original series was really weird, especially how she got pulled into the sheriff's office during the final episode, only to disappear again. It would be interesting to see her story given a bigger role.
 

 

I didn't notice this until I looked at the credits just now but yeah, that is the same actor. She's credited as just "American Girl" though and Cooper doesn't really seem to acknowledge that he recognizes her so it might just be a short cameo.

 

Speaking of the credits, Don S. Davis/Major Garland Briggs is credited (with the tag "archive footage" on imdb) in this episode. I thought the face floating by in space as Cooper looks down from the floating platform might be him and it seems like that's the case. He says "Blue Rose" as he floats past by the way.

[electricblue]

  On 5/23/2017 at 10:23 PM, MarkHoog said:

I only have one question after this episode.

 

IS IT ABOUT THE BUNNY?!?!?! 

 

It's NOT about the bunny

 

...is it about the bunny...

 

No.

[LadyHawke]

New to the forum, old to Twin Peaks.

 

Douggie serms to be a construct created by BOB to trap Cooper when he exits the Black Lodge. He has the ring, and his arm goes dead, echoing Mike, who greets him in the Black Lodge before the "bad" tree takes his essence. 

 

Also, in that same sequence, when BadCoop vomits, he vomits garmonbozia ... Possibly weakening his hold on the Cooper body. I guess we'll see later how this plays out.

 

The blind woman appeared Asian. Is this supposed to evoke Josie Packard? (Edit to correct autocorrect!)

Edited May 25, 2017 by LadyHawke

[Gregalor]

  On 5/25/2017 at 8:40 PM, LadyHawke said:

The blind woman appeared Asian. Is this supposed to evoke Josie Packer?

 

I thought about that, too. The resemblance seemed quite close, even without the eyes. Of course, it isn't the same actress, who has confirmed that she was not involved in this new season. However, it could be a Josie (or representation of her) that hasn't aged since her death. When she appeared, I got really excited by the idea that we might be about to learn more of what happened to Josie.

[Woodfella]

  On 5/23/2017 at 5:16 AM, Bjorn said:

So earlier I was wondering whether or not the Dales are separate bodies, split soul/consciousness with one body, or what.

 

3 seems to answer that, that the Doppelgangers are entirely separate creatures from the people they replace.  At least some of the time.  But that does leave me confused about Leland in the original series though, as it was heavily implied there that original Leland was at times present.  But maybe not?  Maybe that was always just BOB in a Leland suit?

I think they are two separate situations. Leland was possessed by Bob and knew what he was doing, at least in FWWM(and I much prefer it that way than the way it was presented in the show) and here Dale and Doppeldale are entirely separate. 

[Woodfella]

-I loved the scenes when Dale first got out the lodge and just looked like a small, confused old man, shuffling around. "Hellllllloooooo"

- Absolutely no idea what's going on with Dougie

- Garland Briggs SPACE FACE!

- Didn't like the Bunnies bit, that bit has been quoted and gifed and memed to death so that bit felt like the most fan servicey "hey remember this lol!" bit so far. 

- Albert <3

 

 

 

[James]

  On 5/25/2017 at 9:15 PM, Gregalor said:

 

I thought about that, too. The resemblance seemed quite close, even without the eyes. Of course, it isn't the same actress, who has confirmed that she was not involved in this new season. However, it could be a Josie (or representation of her) that hasn't aged since her death. When she appeared, I got really excited by the idea that we might be about to learn more of what happened to Josie.

Yeah, I got the same impression. In some way having the eyes covered over seems kind of similar to how we last saw her, trying to push her face out of the doorknob. It feels like an entombment of sorts. 

[Vegas]

  On 5/24/2017 at 5:05 AM, WickedCestus said:

- The scene in the Sheriff's department is one that definitely feels like it could've used musical accompaniment. It kind of reminded me of videos where people strip the laugh track out of sitcoms. I still enjoyed it, although the dynamic where it seems like Hawk is just barely managing put up with Lucy and Andy's nonsense paints a very different picture of the sheriff's department than the friendly atmosphere of the original series.

 

This guy on twitter went ahead and added some of the old music to these scenes, including the one you mention, and it's basically perfect: 

 

[WickedCestus]

Oh that is so good! I didn't realize just how bad I wanted the music back!

[Spud]

This episode marks the first time ever that I've seen an episode of Twin Peaks before there was a matching episode of Twin Peaks Rewatch to listen to afterwards. I've pulled my thoughts from ep 1-2 in here in case people care:

 

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I'm going to drop my thoughts on the first 2 episodes in here. Great to have the show (and the podcast) back again.

 

• I think the casting and direction so far have been really strong. The NY scenes in episode 1 managed to feel really appropriate to Twin Peaks despite being modern day footage of city people in HD.
• On a similar note, the actor who plays Mr. Hastings is my current favourite actor in the show, and the scenes with him have all been excellent from a dialogue perspective. In my mind he's filling a similar role to Leland in season 2 right now.
• I agree a lot of the VFX look weak, and I'm not sure how much of that is intentional. There definitely could have been improvements there, and I'm not sure intentional sloppiness is a good choice anyway
• Disappointed by lack of man from another place. Electric tree thing is no substitute.
• I remember hearing people say you didn't need to see S01 and S02 for this season to make sense. Firstly I think the black lodge stuff is far too confusing for anyone new to the show, but more importantly I'm worried that people will walk in on this season first, and get heavy spoilers for the first 2 seasons worth of good stuff, making it boring if they go back.
• Sarah and Leeland Palmer were both great in their brief appearances. I found myself constantly looking in the mirrors above Sarah's head in case there was something hidden
• I haven't seen anybody talk about it, but during the New York scenes, each time they went into the bathroom the way the basin and mirror were set up together in the foreground gave me strong flashbacks to the season 2 ending. In Episode 1 I was half expecting the security guy to have bashed the mirror with his head or something. I wonder if there's any connection between that bathroom and why Coop appeared in the box nearby.

 

The purple room really unsettled me with it's constant rewinding and nervous blind woman. I almost wish they'd spent less time in the red room in ep1-2 though; it would have felt more jarring

 

I'm really starting to miss the lack of music. I hope they start to bring in more of it with later episodes. Just stuff like the spooky jazz or shuffling drums that plays in so many old episodes, or the 2 notes of sinister change in Laura Palmer's theme that played when the shot cut to showing the woods at night, or traffic lights. There's been very little music at all this time around.

 

Like LadyHawke said, I also noticed that BobCoop was vomiting creamed corn. There's something referential happening there.

 

I have no idea what the deal is with the tiny gold ball and the ring that are left after Dougie disintegrates. A ring sounds familiar, but I'm totally clueless about the ball.

 

The 315 thing in the purple room stood out to me too, once he pulled out the key. I wonder if these 3 digit numbers might end up linking back into that apartment building where the body was found in ep1

 

I assume the guys staking out the house in Nevada to put the tracking thing on that car are part of the plans discussed in ep2 with BobCoop. It is starting to seem that this was something BobCoop anticipated happening, and is trying to "take care of" original Cooper for his own sake.

 

Jacobi spraying spades gold for 5 solid minutes was entertaining, but I hope it matters eventually.

[Bjorn]

  On 5/27/2017 at 9:32 AM, Spud said:

Like LadyHawke said, I also noticed that BobCoop was vomiting creamed corn. There's something referential happening there.

 

 

I have no idea what the deal is with the tiny gold ball and the ring that are left after Dougie disintegrates. A ring sounds familiar, but I'm totally clueless about the ball.

 

No clue about the ball, but have you watched Fire Walk With Me?  I just got around to watching it last night, and it clarifies quite a few things.

 

I'll spoiler them in case people haven't seen or want to watch FWWM soon.
 

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The creamed corn is garmonbozia, something that appears to be the food that denizens of the Black Lodge need to live.  The translation in the sub titles calls it "pain and sorrow".  MIKE is very, very mad that BOB stole garmonbozia from him.

 

The ring plays a major role in FWWM.  Teresa Banks possesses the ring at some point before she's killed.  Agent Desmond finds it under a trailer while investigating Banks murder, and then disappears.  It shows up in multiple dream sequences.  And then finally in the climactic scene MIKE tosses it into the train car and Laura Palmer puts it on, which seems to upset whatever plan BOB had and forces BOB to kill her.  Both Banks and Dougie experienced the loss of use and feeling in their left arms (the hand wearing the ring) prior to dying (assuming what happened to Dougie can be called dying). 

Edited to add.  I just looked up a wiki page on the ring, it shows up in the original show more than I remembered and there's all sorts of stuff about it in the books apparently.

 

 

[Spud]

  On 5/27/2017 at 5:02 PM, Bjorn said:

 

No clue about the ball, but have you watched Fire Walk With Me?  I just got around to watching it last night, and it clarifies quite a few things.

 

I'll spoiler them in case people haven't seen or want to watch FWWM soon.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The creamed corn is garmonbozia, something that appears to be the food that denizens of the Black Lodge need to live.  The translation in the sub titles calls it "pain and sorrow".  MIKE is very, very mad that BOB stole garmonbozia from him.

 

The ring plays a major role in FWWM.  Teresa Banks possesses the ring at some point before she's killed.  Agent Desmond finds it under a trailer while investigating Banks murder, and then disappears.  It shows up in multiple dream sequences.  And then finally in the climactic scene MIKE tosses it into the train car and Laura Palmer puts it on, which seems to upset whatever plan BOB had and forces BOB to kill her.  Both Banks and Dougie experienced the loss of use and feeling in their left arms (the hand wearing the ring) prior to dying (assuming what happened to Dougie can be called dying). 

Edited to add.  I just looked up a wiki page on the ring, it shows up in the original show more than I remembered and there's all sorts of stuff about it in the books apparently.

 

 

 

I do remember the bit with the ring from FWWM, that's probably where it seemed familiar from. I guess we'll have to wait and see if they take it anywhere further

[Maple Syrup and Ham]

Hey there all,

 

I am late to the forum party but having just watched season 3 I was curious as to the thoughts of others and the diorection or meaning of some of these scenes.

 

Firstly the connection to slectricity is becoming more and more prominent this season, I particularly loved the way the plug sockets that Coop came out of after Dougie was taken into the red room looked like smiling faces observing the madness going on before them.

 

The purple room was interesting and really scary, Lynch has really gone to town this season on his long drawn out scenes that he loved so much in season 1 and 2 (the old waiter, old man in bank, old man walking across the road in FWWM), however they seem to be more of a regular thing to build tension and intrigue rather than the "cameo scences" as they were treated as in the original series. Personally I love these long drawn out scenes! I like the idea that Coop was followed into the box, and it may be possible that whoever "mother" is that was banging on the door of the purple room is this person who followed him. She seemed aggressive and the blind lady was plenty scared of her. I went back and paused on the scene when Albert and Gordon are being shown the shadowy figure in the box, and it looks like it could be a woman, just from shape contours. Which leads to the idea of who mother is?!

 

Also, when the blind woman went up and pulled the lever and seemingly reset the purple room below, changing the "safe teleporting box" number and the woman inside. I'm not sure if this woman was meant ro represent the same woman but before she had her eyes fused closed, maybe by "mother" or whatever is banging on the door. Perhaps suggesting the room has changed in time rather than a change in space? It is then strongly suggested that this purple room is still well within the confines of the black lodge, because it is the only place where backwards talking has been used and exhibited, and that's exactly what this new woman was doing.

[Maple Syrup and Ham]

The whole being sick with creamed corn and general black ooze/sludge, would suggest that it's BOB or a BOB like spirit who's being sick because that's what is in their stomach because that's what they feed on (fear and suffering). Why they are sick I am unsure, and it also seems that whilst this would suggest it is the start of being taken into the red room, Dougie was but DoppleCoop was not because the policemen found him in his car post crash. So perhaps this is the start of DoppleCoop's plan working, he should have been taken into the red room at that time but Dougie was instead. Was maybe Dougie made by DoppleCoop to act as a human shield, that so he was taken into the room in his place. Thus fullfiuling his purpose as Mike stated. He was also wearing the green ring suggesting he was perhaps completing a cycle. 

 

I also found it interesting how Mike knew to cover his eyes just before Dougie turned into the gold ball, has Mike seen this before? He certainly looked perturbed, he was maybe expecting DoppleCoop to be the one who was there.

 

Speaking of rings, I couldn't help but think of the 12 days of Christmas song when Jacobi was spray painting his 5 shovels gold, rings are an important part of Twin Peaks assumiung cycles and repetition is an important theme.