Important If True 37: Uncharacteristically Cursed

[Jake]

Important If True 37:

Uncharacteristically Cursed
We're not sure what your friend told you when they handed you this podcast, but you might not want to press play. Not because it's bad or something (we're pretty proud of it actually), but because, let's just say, it's incredibly cursed. If you dare listen, it may not turn out well for you in the long term. That said, no risk is without its rewards. In this case, you can listen to us puzzle through some crucial questions of the ages, like: Is Walt Whitman alive? Who is the Ketchup King, and why do they remind us of a trip to work with dad? And, will a bittersweet Facebook video solve the mystery of who killed you? Find out quickly; if you got this far you probably don't have much time left.

Discussed: Loving my coffee mug, hating Mondays, cursed videotapes, detailed newspaper coverage of Walt Whitman's decline, no hope for Walt Whitman, an unfavorable turn in the condition of Walt Whitman, Walt Whitman about the same, the Walt Whitman beat, generated Facebook videos of your memories, generated Facebook memories algorithmically predicting your future death, obscene food combinations, peanut butter/jelly/ketchup sandwiches, "I Am The Ketchup King (and the Ketchup King Likes You Very Much)," overwhelming sensory experiences destroying good things, The Year I Hated Ketchup, the nerdy version of teenage awkwardness manifesting itself in incredibly self-destructive ways, drinking vinegar, Vine, "Share Your Curse Online," inevitable future CW or BBC crime shows in which algorithmic Facebook video montages are crucial clues, Happy Valley (Netflix, BBC), seemingly normal things that may be death in disguise, the powerful and seductive fantasy of throwing your keys or phone into a storm drain, the horrifying reality of watching your keys fall into a tiny crack in the ground, The Aviator

Send us your questions to questions@importantiftrue.com. If you enjoyed this and would like to subscribe to an ad-free feed, please consider supporting Idle Thumbs by backing our Patreon.

Chris' Endorsement: Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy (2011) (Amazon, iTunes)
Chris' Subendorsement: Someone who thinks the framework for this endorsement is pathetic.
Chris' Sub-Subendorsement: La Mer, performed by Julio Iglesias (YouTube, Spotify, Amazon, iTunes)

Nick's Endorsement: Too Funny To Fail (Hulu)

Jake's Endorsement: The Pacifica Taco Bell (Business Insider article about Pacifica Taco Bell)

 

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[Gamebeast23456]

Good episode guys. 

 

Man, the corrosive effect of shitty creators in pop culture really blows. Nick's endorsement of Too Funny To Fail sounds interesting, worth a watch, but now it's tainted, along with so much of alternative comedy for more than a decade, by the influence of Louis CK, forever changing how I view it after these revelations came to light. 

[Chris]

  On 11/10/2017 at 4:15 PM, Gamebeast23456 said:

Good episode guys. 

 

Man, the corrosive effect of shitty creators in pop culture really blows. Nick's endorsement of Too Funny To Fail sounds interesting, worth a watch, but now it's tainted, along with so much of alternative comedy for more than a decade, by the influence of Louis CK, forever changing how I view it after these revelations came to light. 

 

Yeah the number of times this has happened is crushing. Similarly, we talked a bunch about Kevin Spacey's character in The Usual Suspects on the previous episode, which was recorded several days before the news came out about him. Every time it's a bummer as our episode goes out right as the big news is breaking.

[plasticflesh]

This is all part of the dialectic. Humans are composed of both good and bad actions, and trying to organize them into purely one or the other is an exercise in futility. 

 

Edit: To clarify, I do not condone, apologize for, or minimize the bad behavior of these people. They should receive the corrective justice of society's social contracts, implicit and explicit. And this correction should be applied evenly.

 

It is very unfortunate that positions of power and authority can so easilly be corrupted for malice. Be it politicians, creatives, celebrities, family, colleagues. The corrective forces of the zeitgeist are a good thing.

 

My initial assertion was to say that the correction can take into account the good with the bad, punishing the bad while accepting the good in an individual is possible. It is an anxious and ambiguous task, yes. This is challenge of the dialectic. The reward is the ability to live in a world with integrity and healing.

 

I struggle with this polarized view of people, which inspires why I'm being so pedantic about it. As examples in games, I stopped playing RimWorld after hearing that creators views. I still enjoy Fez, but in my mind I attribute more credit to the programmer Renaud Bedard. But Renaud and Phil Fish created that together. Much like Ub Iwerks and Walt Disney.

[infamous space turtle]

errrhhh that awkward ketchup story resonated. I remember trying so hard to be funny in class that I started going through my desk and tossing things around. All like  "hey hey guys look at me badada".

To begin with I don't think anyone was laughing, then a battery I threw hit the girl I liked in the tooth and she started bawling. 
 

Good cast yall. 

[RubixsQube]

  On 11/10/2017 at 4:15 PM, Gamebeast23456 said:

Man, the corrosive effect of shitty creators in pop culture really blows. Nick's endorsement of Too Funny To Fail sounds interesting, worth a watch, but now it's tainted, along with so much of alternative comedy for more than a decade, by the influence of Louis CK, forever changing how I view it after these revelations came to light. 

 

I think that the Louis CK news has highlighted something larger, and I wonder if Too Funny To Fail discusses this at all. (The New York Times review of the documentary definitely does) The show is real male-centric. There was only one woman in the writers room, and she was the one woman actress in the cast. Louis CK's behavior was profoundly atrocious, but it is really the tip of a misogyny iceberg in comedy in this country. Glorifying the cast/writers of this show based on the success they've enjoyed in the last twenty years is an exercise in ignoring the privilege and opportunities that men receive (even after repeated failings). Also, it's falling prey to survivorship bias. 

 

I know that this is real negative, but the more that I've read news about the comedy world the more disappointed I've become.

 

To make up for it, here's a funny sketch from The Dana Carvey Show. 

 

 

[plasticflesh]

In watching Dana Carvey Show clips as a result of this pod, I returned to watch some clips from surreal and short lived Comedy Central sketch comedy show Exit 57. This show essentially contained the cast of Strangers with Candy. It was so weird and good.

 

 

 

[RubixsQube]

Yeah, they all met at Second City in Chicago, back when you could be very funny in a sketch group in Chicago or LA or New York and get a TV show out of it, or at least get on SNL, or at the very least get on Mad TV. 

[plasticflesh]

I guess now the route is through Youtube?

[RubixsQube]

Actually, I don't know if Youtube stars care about TV shows. Providing they can continue to get those like and subscribes, they seem pretty happy just making internet content. Heck, it's even easier to do it all on Instagram (RIP Vine). 

[Patrick R]

I think most sketch groups/performers that end up on TV still get there via the stage these days, whether through stand-up acts or as performers at the UCB or Second City. Jay Pharaoh is the only SNL person I can think of who had an online following (via his impressions of Denzel Washington and Will Smith) before ending up there.

[plasticflesh]

True, Youtube is a big ecosystem that has its own incentives so there's no need to branch out, and given the plethora of Youtube acts the few that did seep into broadcast is probably a fractional ratio compared to going from stage to broadcast instead of podcast (equivalent).

 

I can only think of a handful of Youtube to Broadcast such as Broad City, which is UCB anyway; or Awkward Black Girl, which the Youtube being an extension of NY stage comedy as well. 

 

In conclusion, I concede, and agree that stage is the superior venue over the screen or tube. It certainly has at least almost three thousand years of precedence (greek drama)

[Chris]

There are definitely a lot of online sketch group people who have gone on to pretty robust television careers, just not in literally transferring to a televised sketch show. Donald Glover is a big example of that; I first knew him years ago because he was part of the Derrick online comedy sketch group. And Rachel Bloom made her name on YouTube before getting to make Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.

[feelthedarkness]

So I'm not sure if i just skipped a part of this cast, or just am forgetting an older story, but Nick says something about "like the time I knocked over  the Krispy Kreme" sign. 

 

Is this part of the greater Thumbs ARGverse?

[plasticflesh]

I'm also fond of the hybrid stage / pre-youtube Channel 101 scene, lead by Dan Harmon, and involved Justin Roiland making disturbing voice acting cartoon. I'm especially fond of the fantastically weird Magic Haus series that was on Channel 101. Youtube for ease, Channel 101 link for posterity.

[Patrick R]

  On 11/14/2017 at 2:08 AM, Chris said:

 Donald Glover is a big example of that; I first knew him years ago because he was part of the Derrick online comedy sketch group. And Rachel Bloom made her name on YouTube before getting to make Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.

Rachel Bloom is a great example because even if Crazy Ex-Girlfriend isn't a sketch show, it is very much a direct extension of her web work.

 

Donald Glover is weird because he made his name on Derrick comedy then disappeared to work behind the scenes as a writer for 30 Rock then made his name again as an actor on Community than disappeared from comedic acting to make his name as a rapper who then used THAT success to go back and create and act in Atlanta and win a Golden Globe. If careers are skill trees, he's somehow filled in every possible point.

[Jake]

The Lonely Island guys are another big example of online --> TV. 

[RubixsQube]

  On 11/14/2017 at 3:03 AM, feelthedarkness said:

So I'm not sure if i just skipped a part of this cast, or just am forgetting an older story, but Nick says something about "like the time I knocked over  the Krispy Kreme" sign. 

 

Is this part of the greater Thumbs ARGverse?

 

He was referring to the greatest vine of them all

 

 

[jennegatron]

  On 11/14/2017 at 4:56 PM, RubixsQube said:

 

He was referring to the greatest vine of them all

 

 

DO IT FOR THE VINE

[Urthman]

Could I please get a link to those NYT articles about the allegedly imminent death of Walt Whitman? 

[plasticflesh]

A ponderous article exploring the dilemma of distinguishing an artist's products form an artist's moral actions, and the accompanying reddit thread and discussion.

[plasticflesh]

I accidentally posted the above reply in another thread, to which @jennegatron provided this helpful summary

 

  On 11/15/2017 at 6:28 PM, jennegatron said:

1. I think this is not the thread you mean to post this in and 

2.For those of you who don't want to read this, here's your summary - "i'm an asshole and hate when people tell me that consuming the art of living monsters enables them to continue being monsters, and I don't know why everyone on twitter is so mean to me about it, so I'm going to be a philosophical blowhard and advocate for piracy so I can continue to watch the Woody Allen movies that let him rise to prominence. Also I hate vegans and poetry."

[RubixsQube]

  On 11/15/2017 at 12:50 AM, Urthman said:

Could I please get a link to those NYT articles about the allegedly imminent death of Walt Whitman? 

 

They're behind a paywall, but I found them by searching for "Walt Whitman Sick" on the NYT page. The headlines are also discussed and linked in this Paris Review blurb by Zack Newick. 

[Urthman]

Thanks RubixsQube!  My wife is teaching Whitman tomorrow and I thought this might be a fun anecdote she could use.

 

[Urthman]

Here's the main sequence from around Christmas, in case anyone else wants to see it.