Idle Thumbs and the CONs - A modest proposal.

[netmonkey]

I didn't know whether to post this on site feedback or here, but I posted here because I bet more people check out this section of the forums.

Anyway, I have this idea that when the Idle Thumbs cast goes to the conventions like E3 or the GDC, instead of finding people who make good, old-fashioned, franchise-free games (well, of course you guys can still do that but also: ), you would find people that make these crappy, franchise-driven sequel games and ask them some serious questions on upcoming and released games. And don't worry about breaking those guys into pieces, because some of them really deserve it for not thinking about the concequences of their actions. I guess the true people to talk to are the higher-ups in the companies, but go around and see what you can find... attack any fanboi-looking developer!

It would really make Idle Thumbs a good really good site even better than what it is right now (and bring a lot of work for you guys as well, but think of the popularity and the fame!)... there really needs to be a site out there that shows that there exists people who don't give a fuck about pulling these developer's balls around for "El Generico" games.

[Jake]

You want us to go up to people, shit on their face in public, and ask if they like it? I guess I could see that happening if it was the super rare occasion that we actually managed to get to ask questions for a person responsible for that game existing. I don't think Thumbs has any place going up and completely raping some random in-house QA guy, for instance, who happened to get E3 show floor duty for a shitty game.

[Roderick]

I don't think these guys are dumb or anything. It's not like they're doing anyone a favour by making those games, but I wouldn't want anyone doing something like that to me, especially not if a shitty game was forced on me by some Evil Publisher. Besides, this is Penny Arcade's job

[Salka]

You want us to go up to people, shit on their face in public, and ask if they like it?

Oh, I do, I do! That would be awesome.

[netmonkey]

You want us to go up to people, shit on their face in public, and ask if they like it?

Yes! That's exactly what I want you to do...

But actually, what I was thinking about was that you would magically get exclusive interviews with people like the POP:WW Art Director and stuff like that, and if you did ask them some intelligent questions. If they answer something kind of dumb, then ask them why they say that. But that would mean that you wouldn't necessarily come script-prepared for an interview, and it would be more of a debate...

The point was that I don't know what your plans are, but I was suggesting for you guys to find interviews with other developers, too, if you haven't thought about doing so. And when you talk to them don't be so light hearted. There is little critque made by other gaming websites because they still have a "This is not very good and it's been done already but you can still have fun!" attitude (what I call the classic/conservative Adventure Game/Barney-optimistic attitude) which you guys are leaning away from, anyway...

Also, don't blame me for writing crazy proposals at 4:00 AM that are plausible.

[Lechimp]

I sorta agree with netmonkey in a way. While I don't think you should have interviews just for the sole purpose of ripping on people, I'd love to see interviews that have difficult questions and where the people have honest answers. It would be interesting to see an interview with someone in the PR or marketing department. Questions like "Why do you think this game didn't sell well" and how would they market the game, and questions about what the marketing department does other than just putting advertisements in magazines.

[MrHoatzin]

Hi? Are you Uwe Boll? I'm a big fan of yours. Would you mind saying a few words for your fanclub? And could you pose for a picture here with this bronzed piece of shit attached to a shingle... that is our prestigious Polished Turd™ award....

[Intrepid Homoludens]

The gadfly approach, eh? Very evil.

Jake, think of it this way. Think of these impromptu interviews as a kind of Socratic dialogue, where it's difficult to shrug off probing yet honest questions and the same time provoke the interviewee to think good and hard about the decisions made that affected the net quality and nature of whatever game is being discussed.

Trep: "Given the commercial success yet critically questioned art direction of Prince of Persia: Warrior Within, what's your stance on the idea that gamers prefer to go with stereotypical notions of what they're supposed to love in their games?"

Ubisoft rep: "I'm not sure what you mean, but according to our market research, the majority of our fans wanted a darkier, grittier game this time, and we gave them exactly that. The sales figures prove it."

Trep: "How exactly did the sales figures 'prove it'? Were you able to interview a cross section of dedicated gamers and casual gamers? Did you set up a focus group? Did they really tell you that they wanted the line 'You bitch!' included in the stock dialogue, as well as a big-breasted, scantily clad evil female villain in a metal thong? Or is it an extrapolation based on what many other games readily have that are marketed to a largely male demographic? Is that what they really wanted?"

Ubisoft rep: "Erm, I would have to speak to the marketing department about that."

Trep: "How important do you think is the content, originality, and conceptual integrity of a game like Warrior Within compared to its marketability to as large a target as possible? What's your definition of a truly good original and integrated game that is also hugely successful commercially, beyond it merely being what bunch of corporate businessmen who otherewise never actually play games themselves assume the market wants?"

Ubisoft rep: "Hey....listen! It's about my lunch hour now. My replacement is due here in a minute. Maybe you could ask her these questions. Bye now, thanks for your time, okay?"

[manny_c44]

Heckling bean-counters doesn't make for interesting interviews, they're just as dry as their motives.

I also think hassling small wannabe developers won't do any good because they are just victims of the existing machinery, it's like making fun of a retard.

I even-more-also think that the interview with Ron Gilbert was the absolute right direction to head in. I mean, we all know why the gaming industry is mired in shit. Now the thumb can dig through the shit, panning for gold, and then give us meaningful and hilarious interviews. The only problem is (I guess) getting the interviews. But not every interview has to be with someone really important like Sid or Ron, why not interview Greg Kasavin? He'd probably enjoy letting loose on topics he restrains himself for on gamespot. Etc etc.

Also, I was thinking about how the popularity of any fun-based web site relies on visuals. Penny-arcade, that homestar whatever, somethingawful, or grumpygamer (and the rest) all have it. So if the thumb ever heads in that direction, I think it would be better to have a 'New Yorker' setup than a strictly continuous character method. You know, just a thought.

[Spaff]

im just gonna get drunk and fall over people lots

probably get some good journalism done too.

[chromatose]

I'm not sure that there's any point in doing what you suggest. Like you said, the blame really belongs with those controlling the cash flow. Any game developer who is making shitty games by choice and not because of forces outside their control isn't really worth acknowledging.

Like it or not, games are going Hollywood. Even if you think they're already there, it's only going to get worse. Bad games aren't going away. It's time to get used to them because there's going to be a lot more of them. However, just like Hollywood movies, SOME big budget titles will still be of high quality.

The thing that the movie industry has filling the gaps that the gaming industry doesnt have much of yet is an indie scene. The indie scene definately exists but it has big shoes to fill and a long way to go to fill them.

So while at these cons, rather than find the people who are churning out shit so you can yell at them for it, your time would probably be better spent hunting down the developers whom you respect and shaking their hands so that they know they're appreciated. Besides, it'd probably be more fun to talk games with people who are thinking beyond the current most marketable trend anyway.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

im just gonna get drunk and fall over people lots

probably get some good journalism done too.

The booth babes look forward to your arrival.

So while at these cons, rather than find the people who are churning out shit so you can yell at them for it, your time would probably be better spent hunting down the developers whom you respect and shaking their hands so that they know they're appreciated. Besides, it'd probably be more fun to talk games with people who are thinking beyond the current most marketable trend anyway.

Good point. But we here at Thumb also need to get word out what the big, limelight lighted airheads are doing. The smaller Turks need to be paid attention to, and it's a good idea for some ongoing feature articles and interviews. Besides, if anyone there is willing to give the time for a nice newsworthy chat, it's the smaller indie devs.

[Nick]

im just gonna get drunk and fall over people lots

probably get some good journalism done too.

I see Hunter S. in everything lately.

[netmonkey]

Like it or not, games are going Hollywood. Even if you think they're already there, it's only going to get worse. Bad games aren't going away. It's time to get used to them because there's going to be a lot more of them. However, just like Hollywood movies, SOME big budget titles will still be of high quality.

It's not about quality per se. I was just watching the Oscars and there are still a lot of movies made that are just intended for general audiences. Big studios have even started independent-based distributors to finance and release independent movies too (Fox Searchlight, for example). But the fact is that most of those movies nominated are for all audiences... there is no target audience in particular; you just go to see it because it's supposed to be good. There's little games made in America these days that are for everybody and most are wasted on only targeting the adrenaline-pumped horny male for some odd reason. I guess they do buy the consoles, but some of them have families, too. Maybe they can play together. Oh, and believe it or not, some of them have girlfriends, too!

When we were kids, before there was mortal kombat and all, we loved games like mario and sonic! My dad, who was then like 30 years old, would sit on the computer and play the original Prince of Persia. Now days, I doubt he can sit on the computer or my xbox and play any game that he likes, including Prince of Persia: Sands of Time (although it's pretty good for my liking and it's indeed produced by the same guy... Jordan Mechner?), or any less POP:Christian Rock Within, because they don't appeal to him.