GDCTV - Molyneux on moving gameplay forward

[vimes]

For Us, the people that will have soon their Psychonauts copy but not quite yet , for Us, who can't attend to developers conferences , Gamasutra has opened a wonderful service : Game Developers Conference TV.

GDCTV "enables everyone to view some of the best sessions from GDC 2005 via high quality video streamed to the web" as the website state.

[ Edit : woops -> the link :http://www.pqhp.com/cmp/gdctv/ ]

The first installment is Gameplay Moves Forward into the 21st Century by Peter Molyneux, and even if it is not as deep or as revolutionnary as I though this would be, this one hour presentation is great. It treats the problem of having a broadened audience coming to video games and how games will have be more friendly-using and finds its own features in order to survive as a media giving the opportunties to accomplish things forbidden in any other media.

Personnally, I watched this panel in the first place because this was my first opportunity to see/hear Molyneux (more or less) live. I was hoping not get enthusiastic and bash the guy afterwards.

After watching this, I must say I now understand how people can be tricked into his humongous theories and view for video games. This guy is passionnate yet very calm and he really believes in his ideas. For example, there is not the shadow of a doubt in his mind that the gameplay mecanism he plans will work.

However, because Molineux decided to show how to make game more accessible and attracting, the main interest of this conference resides in the three demo of upcoming games Lionhead is working on rather than in the digression themselves.

The first game shown to the audience is The Movies, which Molyneux usesto convey the idea that the mecanisms of gameplay must be integrated in the environment, even in the case of a complex Managment Game. In the case of The Movies, if the idea to display deeper and more precise informations on an item the longer you highlight it, the integration of all menus in the environment seems quite extreme. In a way, it is indeed perfect for the public Molineux admits to target - the mainstream audience who can't and won't play games for hours- however, overall, this interface looks like a student project : it's flashy, it's cool but it really look less efficient that former system.

See the presentation and how you must drag and drop some wannabe actor in a particular room of a certain building of your studio to hire him, to see what I mean. On the long term, if there is no backup system with menu etc..., I feel this could be a failure for hardcore gamers. Oh, there is a small demo of what you can do with the Movie Creation System but it's not very convincing.

Next is Black and White 2, the game Molyneux and the co-designer of the game define as "The One Which Will Redefine Both RTS and God Game Genre"

'Wow' after seeing this I must that could be true.

The most stricking pattern is that, contrary to The Movies - and because B&W2 doesn't seem to involve micro-managment - the lack of HUD gives the game a smooth look and a feel of both almyghtiness and easyness quite impressive. That only wouldn't make a good game (B&W proved this) but the blent of the ideas between the ex-Blizzard employee and Molyneux seems to have created a near perfect creation/mangament system; or at least, the first one that make me want to play a RTS. The Warcraft guy must have play the role of guardian over Molyneux ambition and the game appears less free, yes, but much more interesting.

Beside, breeding your creature has apparently become a step the player won't be forced to go through : you can make leave it alone in the village or turn it into a tool of war.

B&W2 looks and feels good but the battles were a bit confusing and, same as in B&W, the distinction between the managment of your people and the managment of your creature might turn the game into an unplayable mud. But that seems quite unlikely.

Last but not least , it's The Room. Prepare to fear this name and to long for it.

The saddest thing is that it isn't even supposed to be released but I wish, I WANT it to be released.

It is introduced at the very end of the demonstration in order to show future gameplays. And OH BOOOOOOOYYYY , it looks excellent, its is the best thing I have seen in a while. I don't think there is words that describes how this demonstration made me feel : it is the first time ever I was litterally mouth wide open during a demo. You though Wanda & The Colossus was beyond your imagination, just watch the demo.

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be such thing as gaming elements yet, but the artistic ideas are just mind blowing, it's like having the feeling of Myst when you discover a new Island. DAMN, I WANT THIS GAME!

So, sorry for the long thread (and all the language mistakes it surely contains, ) but it's been a while since I messed with conceptual ideas like these and because IdleThumbs pretends to looks at game with a refreshing view I think that it was interesting to bring those topics forward.

[SiN]

HOLY SHIT! just watched molyneux's speech. i was stunned!

first off, the movies. i absolutely love his ideas on a "no menu" game ... the way you do stuff in the movies is absolutely amazing to me. essentially, menus normally control objects in the game, right? ... molyneux says "why not make the menus those objects themselves?" (not a real quote btw). the result is great ... simple drag and drop interfaces ... and REALLY reminds me of the first time i used a mac ... all i did was experiment with things ... try this or that, drag this over that, see what happens ... and thats what i absolutely loved about macosx, it was just great fun to play around with as well as being a solid rts. thats what i see the movies being .... a great game to play around with, as well as being a solid game itself.

b&w2 was amazing, amazing, amazing! it has the same idea of keeping the controls as simple as possible ... these are literally controls :

left-click : nagivate

right-click : interact

and thats it! having seen it in action, i can safely say it works FAR better than it did in B&W because the game gives you feedback for your actions ... it'll tell you what it thinks your thinking. in fact, while molyneux was demo-ing things, he'd say things like, "right, now im going to show you how to x" and i was able to successfully guess how to perform whatever action he was talking about. super-intuitive!

the room was also great. it was the perfect sandbox ga- ... toy. thats what it was ... something to play around with. it needs to be seen to actually be believed.

anyway, im piss-sleepy now ... but am gonna find time to watch the katamari guy tonight as well!

[edit] ahh, he's not online yet ... only molyneux has been posted. oh well, im off to bed then! [/edit]

SiN

[netmonkey]

I really dug that Peter Molyneux stuff... I find particulary interesting how the interface for the movies is the game itself. He's a very abstract designer, though.. as the game doesn't have a realistic feel as you pick up the characters and drop them where they need to go... very god like (duh!).

Black&White 2 looked interesting, but I wasn't very impressed. It feels too chaotic.

The Room demo was very interesting... it looked so damn good.

[manny_c44]

Yeah it seems the question with Molyneux isn't whether he'll innovate, but if his games will be any fun. The movies looked very impressive (and from that demo movie it looks like your options are wide open), but Black and White 2 looks like it will be as erratic and awkward as the first one. It seems they cleaned up the movement/interaction interface, atleast the madness might be smooth this time around.

[Thrik]

That "The Room" really was incredible. I mean, God damn. Obviously it's no good as a game in itself (except for some messing around), but if they can work that into a working game concept then it'd be brilliant.

Black and White 2 looked great from what I saw, and I don't really think it looked chaotic at all. Everything seemed very logical and simple to use. The battle bit was pretty intense, but it has to be remembered that that is not the kind of battle you'll be thrown into as a beginner. I mean, any RTS game is going to look confusing as hell if you start watching somebody else playing it who's fairly experienced.

I look forward to The Movies too. I've not been following it too closely, but what I saw there looked ace. The whole menu system was very cool. I knew that they were stripping the interface down to a bare minimum, and keeping it mainly 3D, but I had no idea how they were actually goint to be doing it.

[Roderick]

The Room indeed! That just begs to open up a new can of ideas. Strangely, I can think of none, though I'm completely enthralled by it. Maybe I just can't grasp the level of genius that Molyneux is at. I feel incompetent.

[Marek]

The Room is a load of crap. Granted, it's good that Lionhead has some experiments going on, and surely the things Lionhead learns with it will find its way into other games, but The Room in and of itself is utterly unimpressive to me. Myst with physics?

Rag Doll Kung Fu is a lot more worthwhile as an experiment. It's something tangible and real, not some half-realized blurry dream of an "artistic" but in fact meaningless "virtual world". Feh.

[Roderick]

It asn't the physics, it was those weird portals that intruiged me. I don;t give a damn if it's done before or something. The atmosphere was so weird and surrealistic. I'd like to play around a bit there.

[David]

The Room is a load of crap. Granted, it's good that Lionhead has some experiments going on, and surely the things Lionhead learns with it will find its way into other games, but The Room in and of itself is utterly unimpressive to me.

You did listen to the part where he said that it wasn't going to be sold and was just a demo, right? It's probably loads more fun than Virtual Springfield or Pyst at any rate.

[Marek]

Yes, I know that. But even as a creative exercise it didn't strike me as anything super interesting. Oh well.

[Roderick]

I think the point Molyneux tried to make with The Room is that developers should start to think outside the box when they approuch a virtual world. So far people have mostly tried to recreate the existing world with existing physical laws. The Room bends those laws and shows that there's so much more that you can do in the interactive invironment that only computergames can bring. It gives a sample of the endless possiblities, most of which hadn't been probed properly before. Myst with physics, that's harsh.

[Marek]

Rest assured I'm not on a Molyneux bashing tour. I'm very much looking forward to Black & White 2 and The Movies.

And I like the portal. But that sort of stuff was also done in American McGee's Alice. And that's a game we could actually buy and play.

(Or check out the

egg shell made of static, or the weird gravity in Sasha's and the milkman's minds

in Psychonauts. Those things are equally interesting when it comes to games using rules other than the ones from our universe.)

I guess I don't like how this is Lionhead's "radical experiment that will never get published". As an experiment, it's not experimental enough, and as a concept it doesn't stand. That means it's a missed opportunity. Either they should do something really batshit crazy or they should put some of those abstract or mildly surreal elements into an actual product. But this is a bit shooting blanks.

Despite the abysmal state of the industry I refuse to be woo-ed by a room with physics, magical doors and cubes that turn into fruit bowls.

[Roderick]

Just to be clear on this: I wasn't in any Molyneux-defending mode or something. When it comes to Molyneux I prefer being as neutral as possible What did strike me as amusing was that he seemed back to his old self again during that presentation. Which means; very enthusiastic. This time it was good though, as he actually had stuff to back it up with. I hate that I'm saying this but B&W2 looks like it could be neat.

[Marek]

Yeah B&W2 looks like it could be really cool. I really want to see it at E3. I also think The Movies is great, and it will probably be the new Lionhead flagship title. It has very broad appeal, enormous potential for expansion packs and pretty much promotes itself through machinima. Unless The Movies is a huge stinker, which I doubt it will be, we can expect it to enter the entertainment mainstream in ways that The Sims and Halo did before.

From a player perspective I'm slightly worried about their interface approach for it though. "Natural interfaces" that take place entirely in the game world tend to be awesome in theory, but cumbersome in practice - at least, when the designers stretch the metaphors too far. Having to mouse-drag your way to a building each time you want to perform an action gets tiring after a while. Sometimes a greater level of abstraction is better for usability, even though it reduces the immersiveness a little. So I really hope The Movies finds the right balance.

[Dingo Chavez]

I like Molyneux's personality as a game designer who wants to improve with every game much more than I like his actual games.

The Movies was quite nice and looks to be fun but these type of games never appealed to me, usually I play them for a couple of hours 'till I get bored with them or in most cases frustrated.

Black & White 2 didn't really do anything for me, I like the simplicity of it but that's pretty much it.

The Room was very nice, I really don't care if it's only a demo I found it to be a real look at a proper physics engine. Half-Life 2 was cute, but The Room is the way it should be.

[SiN]

i just remembered that the katamari damacy video would be up. watched it tonight ... it was very interesting. although the voice-overs were annoying (done by women, of which one had a very annoying voice and one was okay) the presentation was unlike anything u'd hear out of the games industry. i dont quite know what to say about it, but just watch it ... it'll make you laugh and think alot .... facinating stuff.

SiN

[netmonkey]

I liked the Katamari Damacy one, too! Damn it, I want to play the game... I'm going to have to strangle someone for a PS2

[Trithemius]

Someone want to throw up a link to the We Love Katamari video?

[lailoken]

Just use the old linkage...

Wow, what an awesome talk. Now I am angrier than ever for not getting to play Katamari yet. I really like Takahashi's vision and I think we can't get enough people like that in the games industry. Maybe it will take some time, but I sincerely hope that more people start to think about games that way. His remark about not wanting kids to spend all their time in front of his games... awesome! Great guy, great talk! All hail Keita Takahashi.