elmuerte Posted June 9, 2006 If Linux will be on the PS3 it's mostly due to EU taxation laws. How's that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drummand Posted June 9, 2006 More news from Kenny Kutagari on the PC replacement front. There's a decent summary at Gamespot: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152519.html Kinda funny, in one quote he sez, "Steve Jobs could slap an Apple logo on the PS3 and sell them for $2,000 each." Then later he's quoted as saying Sony wants to be like Apple, not MS. Which I guess means they want to be able to charge $2000 for the PS4? The point of particular interest to this conversation: He further emphasized the PS3's PC-like abilities, stating there would be no problems running popular flavors of OS, including Linux, Windows, and Mac OS X: "to the PS3, an OS is like any other application." However, he added that "I think that perhaps you'll see a general purpose Cell [built-in] OS." Previously, the company has said that the PS3 hard drive would come with a Linux-based OS preinstalled. Wonder if this preinstalled general purpose 'Cell OS' is a Linux-based variant? Must admit, I am a bit curious about where this all is heading .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brkl Posted June 9, 2006 Wow, I've never heard of a Windows build for Cell before. It's very surprising that Microsoft would hand over the Windows source code to their competitor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmuerte Posted June 9, 2006 I assume any popular OS would be run through virtualisation software. But still... I'll just wait and see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SiN Posted June 9, 2006 How's that? Tarrifs were charged on consoles imported to the EU. Sony wanted to get around that by classifying the PS2 as a computer. They won the case, however it's of no relevance now since "as from January 1st [2004] both games consoles and computers will be zero-rated for customs tariffs when they are imported into the EU" (source) http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=pub&aid=2342 Kinda funny, in one quote he sez, "Steve Jobs could slap an Apple logo on the PS3 and sell them for $2,000 each." Then later he's quoted as saying Sony wants to be like Apple, not MS. Which I guess means they want to be able to charge $2000 for the PS4? No, it actually means they'd like to have the brand perception that Apple has, which I guarantee you, every company in the world would kill for. Now if everyone stopped being a cynic for one moment, they'd see that the PS3 is actually kinda interesting. I've never owned a Sony home console before and I'm not gonna start now, but the stuff Kutaragi is saying, if they pull it off, will be revolutionary IMO. He stated that in regards to the PS3, "our message is clear: hardware is our business." Rather than selling hardware at a loss and compensating with royalties, Sony plans to make the PS3 "a common platform, on which top programmers can realize their full potential." So in other words, Sony are breaking the old Nintendo strategy of selling consoles. This means they should have no problem at all with the homebrew community. The first-parties don't like homebrew because it means people buy less games, which means they get less royalties. If Sony intend not to make royalties it opens up *huge* possibilities. The PS3 could be retro heaven, with all sorts of emulators ported to it. It could be your media center, your console, and hell, even something to casually surf the net on. Now will it replace PCs as we know it? Certainly not. But for alot of people (ie: casual pc users) $600 for a full media center/basic computer/console will be well worth it. What bothers me though is that if this has been the plan all along, why didn't they talk about this at E3? Why haven't we seen this Cell OS? Why haven't they shown us the software that'll come bundled with the PS3? I have a feeling that while their idea is good, it's going to fail at execution. The PS3 just feels like an *extremely* unfocused product, which can't be good seeing as the 360 and Wii are perhaps the most focused consoles Microsoft/Nintendo have put out. Like I said before, time will tell, but while I wrote the PS3 off completely at E3, things are looking slightly more interesting now. If they deliver the goods, this will be a very interesting console generation indeed. SiN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsps Posted June 9, 2006 More news from Kenny Kutagari on the PC replacement front. There's a decent summary at Gamespot:http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152519.html Kinda funny, in one quote he sez, "Steve Jobs could slap an Apple logo on the PS3 and sell them for $2,000 each." Then later he's quoted as saying Sony wants to be like Apple, not MS. Which I guess means they want to be able to charge $2000 for the PS4? Didn't anyone get the memo that Apple's products are affordably priced—some might even say obliterating comparably priced ones on the design and software front—now? http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000591.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drummand Posted June 9, 2006 nsps: Heh. Don't know whether Ken K got that memo; I was just cracking wise. You know, the whole "also: it's not expensive enough" bit. Now if everyone stopped being a cynic for one moment, they'd see that the PS3 is actually kinda interesting. ... [T]he stuff Kutaragi is saying, if they pull it off, will be revolutionary IMO. ... If Sony intend not to make royalties it opens up *huge* possibilities. The PS3 could be retro heaven, with all sorts of emulators ported to it. It could be your media center, your console, and hell, even something to casually surf the net on. For the record, I'd like to see Sony do well without dominating this gen ... Competition is good for everyone. But with all the posturing they've been up to of late, you must admit they're making it hard not to be cynical. I suppose some PR grandstanding is to be expected, but their current attitude leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I am interested in how this will shake out in the end .... I'm not getting the impression that they're letting royalties go entirely; just that they aren't making it the sole focus of their revenue stream. They're still selling the console at a loss, so they've got to make that money back somewhere. The money they'll see from BluRay disc sales (especially if it becomes the HD standard) will help, but would it be enough? I think, really, Sony and MS want their console to be your living room's media hub. Both are using gaming as a trojan horse to get their gear hooked to your telly (and attendant soundset), both are looking for that Applesque 'ecosystem'. MS seems to be taking more of a network approach to the hub with their console positioned as a sort of 'living room gateway' for media stored on your (Windows) PC. Sony seems to be positioning their hub as more of an everymachine with some sort of potential to link into other hardwares ... I've heard that Cell-based machines can somehow be Voltroned together into a multi-Celled organism, but (obviously) I'm hazy on what exactly this means, if it's still in, and why it's a good thing. Now, I suppose if I can install my desktop OS on my PS3, I get network access that way whether my desktop's OSX or XP or Linux (presuming I can install my OS on the PS3; I'm not a Mac person, but I was of the understanding that OSX isn't friendly to non-Mac machines) . What bothers me though is that if this has been the plan all along, why didn't they talk about this at E3? ... The PS3 just feels like an *extremely* unfocused product ... I'm getting the feeling that we won't really know anything til the PS3 is finally released. All this recent talk about PC replacement smacks of the usual PR hyperbole, and its timing (following the MS announcement of Live Anywhere) only makes it more suspicious. But I suppose that's just me being cynical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsps Posted June 9, 2006 nsps: Heh. Don't know whether Ken K got that memo; I was just cracking wise. You know, the whole "also: it's not expensive enough" bit. Yeah, I knew you were cracking wise, I was just making fun of KK. I also hope that all of the consoles are somewhat successful, as competition encourages innovation. But I'd still like to see Sony get the shit kicked out of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lobotomy42 Posted June 10, 2006 Wow, I've never heard of a Windows build for Cell before. It's very surprising that Microsoft would hand over the Windows source code to their competitor. They won't. Why would they? He said the PS3 "could" run any operating system. That doesn't mean it will, or that it will easily and legally. In order to get either Windows or Mac OS X to run natively on the PS3, you would a specially-designed and compiled copy from either company. Alternatively, you could emulate the hardware of a PC, which might work (very slowly) for Windows, but definitely won't for Mac OS X. Either way, the OS would have a fit with the hardware, and probably wouldn't be very useful. Undoubtedly, some form of Linux will run on the PS3 since it did on the PS2, Xbox, and GameCube (sort of). But, like before, it will be mostly a tech toy and a bullet point on the box rather than an actually useful feature. Don't you guys remember the PS2 hype? "USB Ports! A hard drive and network adaptor on the way! It will run Linux and connect to the Internet! Toy Story Graphics!" And in the end? It was still just a games console. Fool me twice... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpiderMonkey Posted June 10, 2006 I get the message now that Sony is trying to change the rules, but I just don't see how their new model works for anyone but themselves. Game consoles are platforms. They support an ecology of developers and publishers. In a time when the costs of game development continue to grow, the single best way to offset those growing costs is to sell more copies. To sell more copies, a platform needs to either increase its install base, or increase its tie ratio. But I don't understand how, under any realistic laws of economics, either of these things can happen when the price of the console is now twice what it was previously and the price of the games has also increased. Sure, Sony won't suffer from a PS3 at $600, but it seems like a sure-fire way to kill the ecology. Fewer people will own the console, fewer people will buy the games, and the publishers will be getting less money back for greater development costs. How do Sony think can that sustain itself? Publishers will just leave and go to rival platforms. And at that point, the "the winner is the person with the best games" rule comes in for the killer blow, surely. It just seems like they haven't thought this through at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsps Posted June 10, 2006 No, they haven't. And that's part of the reason I laughed at Kenny K's Apple comment—Apple has been turning away from the premium-pricing strategy in the name of market share. Sony might see themselves making a console too cheap, but everyone else will just see the most expensive of three consoles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lazarou Posted June 13, 2006 HD-DVD and Blu-Ray aren't made for users. They're made because DVD isn't seen as secure enough to prevent digital piracy. The movie studios are the ones accelerating the push to a new format so they can have more control over content. Not to mention sell you all the special-edition movies you bought on dvd all over again. But look, they're all sharp and sparkly, so I guess that's okay then Personally, I just don't think the market's ready for hd media anyway. Won't stop them from trying to force the issue though, but that doesn't necessarily mean it'll take hold anywhere outside of the more anal-retentive techie crowd. SACD or dvd-audio anyone? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loonyboi Posted June 13, 2006 Personally, I just don't think the market's ready for hd media anyway. Won't stop them from trying to force the issue though, but that doesn't necessarily mean it'll take hold anywhere outside of the more anal-retentive techie crowd. SACD or dvd-audio anyone? I don't think this is quite the same as either of those formats. Granted, I don't think 99% of people will be able to immediately tell the difference between regular and HD DVDs, but DVD players are so outrageously cheap right now that people getting a new system WILL buy one because they need to feel like they're getting something that's top of the line for their new surround sound system and HDTV. People have been buying upscaling DVD players, which these *are* in addition to being next-gen DVD players, so those people will just buy these. Also, as an owner of an HDTV, I will say that I look forward to this stupid thing being resolved. Warner Bros. is going to be releasing an Ultimate Superman box set in both regular, Blu-Ray and HDDVD formats, and I'm not going to waste my time with the old version...I want all those movies in HD format. I just need to know which one to go with. Probably blu-ray because I'm going to get a PS3 anyway...but I'm not planning on getting one this year, that's for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ysbreker Posted June 14, 2006 This just in: The PS3 is getting too hot for it's own good! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
