Ernest Adams on Citizen Kane: MMORPG

[MrHoatzin]

http://gamasutra.com/features/20060807/adams_01.shtml

  Gamasutra said:

The struggle for public respect goes on. As soon as the Entertainment Software Association knocks down one clown-made unconstitutional ordinance designed to censor video games, another one pops up somewhere else. It’s Whack-A-Mole with lawsuits.

Video games are an easy target because, unlike the movies, games have no powerful friends and no beautiful film stars to argue for them. But there are many other reasons for our lack of cultural credibility as well. Some of them aren’t our fault, but a surprising number are, and recently I’ve thought of another one: We don’t have any highbrow games.

I'm terrified to find out what people here present think of this issue/article.

[toblix]

I always agree with stuff I read. I'm so God-damned weak.

[elmuerte]

I think the article spans too many pages

[andreadst]

  toblix said:

I always agree with stuff I read. I'm so God-damned weak.

I have the same feeling about unanimous people approval to Micheal Moore movies

[toblix]

  andreadst said:

I have the same feeling about unanimous people approval to Micheal Moore movies

I do that, too.

[miffy495]

Stupid Michael Fucking Moore. Even when I agree with him, I still think he's a slimeball son of a bitch. Anyway:

I find it interesting that he not only shows how ignorant he is of the industry he's paid to write about, but drags comics throught the mud as well. Sin City? For kids. Bone? Juvenile and immature. Etc. How the hell does this dude still have a job? Someone needs to send that man a link to Facade, right quick.

[MrHoatzin]

Ernest Adams is well aware of Facade. I do think all of his examples of high art are cringeworthy.

[Wrestlevania]

  Kingzjester said:

I'm terrified to find out what people here present think of this issue/article.

I think my blood pressure was way too high by the end of page two.

  \ said:

So what would [a Merchant Ivory video game] be about? The same things that highbrow books and movies and other entertainment forms are about: history, science, technology, politics, music, art, religion, diplomacy, family, manners, love, death, duty, sorrow, revenge, depression, and joy. For starters, anyway. Oh, yes, and probably sex, too, but sex handled with grace and sensitivity.

Someone staple this chump to a chair and make him play Farenheit (aka Indigo Prophecy), FFS. I also find it aggravatingly ironic that he cites Disney as a credible source for his wundergame's visuals, yet his main message appears to be mature themes. Disney haven't been credible in this regard for decades and decades--long before many of the young people he's aiming this article at would have either been born or old enough to care; it's a completely flawed example!

And I agree with Miff; the author's an asshole for wading in on comics like he did. Completely uncalled for, and serves only to highlight that he doesn't have a :cens0r:ing clue what he's on about in this regard.

This smacks of sensationalist journalism to me - a rather desperate and somewhat pitiful attempt to bring in a wider audience - and I'm shocked to see it appear on a site like Gamasutra. Ironically enough, I used to consider Gamasutra to be one of the games industry's more high-brow web sites; until I read this article that is. No doubt we'll all be accused of knee-jerk reactionism, but it's still needlessly twisting the knife in more than one back.

Fair enough that the author highlights the Whack-a-Mole lawsuit issue, but way to go for repeatedly kicking the industry in the face whilst it's down. This article does not help matters; it conveniently glosses over the myriad quality high-brow titles out there, in order to pander to the very crowd the author would like us to think he's objecting to (i.e. the witch hunters after Rockstar's blood).

[elmuerte]

well I finally bothered enough to read the text, and I don't agree on his vision of his "Merchant Ivory" game. Never even heard of "Merchant Ivory".

I don't think the problem has anything to do with how games are currently made.

To gain public respect you simply have to wait. It's a matter of time. Elvis Presly wasn't respected by the general public back then, but he is now because the people that liked him back then belong to the ruling general public right now. In about twenty years those dinosaurs that give games a hard time will be gone.

But he has a point about the game industry lacking heros. But do we need heros? Creating a game is a team effort, why should one person take the credit.

[brkl]

  Wrestlevania said:

Someone staple this chump to a chair and make him play Farenheit (aka Indigo Prophecy), FFS.

To prove his point or to punish him for writing that article?

[Duncan]

  brkl said:

To prove his point or to punish him for writing that article?

Are you saying you don't turn to Fahrenheit for examples of "sex handled with grace and sensitivity"? How dare you sir.

Also, yeah, when are we going to get a video game about revenge. When will the industry break that thematic barrier.

[miffy495]

Y'know, I think a better way for Gamasutra to bring attention to the whole thing with a much more coherent case would be to just put up a link to Remo's "I Kill You" and be done with it. Enough with the high-brow, low-brow stuff. If it's good, it's good. Being pretentious is no excuse for making shit products, and there are quite a few cases where a more artistic/less violent/more story-focused/however the hell you want to define "high-brow" game has managed to capture a substantial audience. It may just be me, but this guy's argument holds about as much water as an upside-down seive that's had the base cut out of it.

[brkl]

  Duncan said:

Are you saying you don't turn to Fahrenheit for examples of "sex handled with grace and sensitivity"? How dare you sir.

Characters going "Hmm, let's sex it up" out of the blue is hardly graceful or sensitive.

[Wrestlevania]

You're (both) taking me too literally. The reason I quoted that entire paragraph from the article, then cited Farenheit, is because Farenheit deals with all of the themes quoted in a mature and respectable way--and with some level of quantifiable success regarding each, too.

[brkl]

I think it does no such thing.

[MrHoatzin]

  brkl said:

I think it does no such thing.

I agree. Fahrenheit is an awful choice for illustrating pretty much anything.

But fellas, this here is Ernest Adams! He's often been right before, and never this annoying. Maybe he outsourced his article-writing duties or something.

[Erkki]

Or maybe he just went mad.

[elmuerte]

depends, the USA version of Fahrenheit or the original?

[brkl]

USA is better. They had the good sense to remove those ridiculous sex scenes.

[toblix]

Yeah, sex scenes are too... ridiculous for Americans.

[DanJW]

Maybe you should restrict it to the first act of Fahrenheit, before it gets all silly with the magic and stuff. The first act deals well with all sorts of grown up themes, like depression, isolation, murder, guilt, insanity. And yes, I thought the sex scenes weren't too bad and definately the best I've seen in a game. Better than the sex scenes in many hollywood movies at least.

[andreadst]

they removed the sex scenes?? woo I didn't know about that. what is it with this fu***** censorship? I don't think those sex scenes where fundamental or anything, but they didn't felt more out of place than any sex scene you actually find in 99% of movies. And how can games be considered a form of artistic expression if some content is sacrified for the sake of accessible entertainment?

Also, I thought it was "refreshing" to see some non violence-based adult scenes inserted in a game script. This doesn't change the fact that the game is flawed (especially the last part) but it tries to do some (classic) things in interesting new ways and this can't be criticized.

  elmuerte said:

But he has a point about the game industry lacking heros. But do we need heros? Creating a game is a team effort, why should one person take the credit.

the industry has it's "heroes", it's just that they don't get the media attention as movie stars do...

[elmuerte]

they changed more than just a couple of the sex scenes iirc

ok, media covered heros, but still I don't think there are a lot of "heros".

btw, did everybody forget about this: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060315/boissiere_01.shtml

if that isn't a good step toward then I don't know what

[brkl]

  elmuerte said:

they changed more than just a couple of the sex scenes iirc

Well, they named it Indigo Prophecy, that's all as far as I know.

[elmuerte]

looks your right.. they only removed any sex related part and changed the name

still think Indigo Prophecy is a better name than Fahrenheit