Gaming principles

[hermes]

If you were to create a list of principles that should be in the awesome games your own imaginary game-company developed, what would they be?

In my list would be:

1) you should always be hearing the breathing of the character you control, and this breathing would of course be affected by the current situation in the game.

I think we underestimate the power of breathing, in its ableness to set a mode.

2) The character should have ongoing inner conversation with himself/herself, and should say stuff all the time when interacting with the environment (in a sensible way of course).. So to transcend the feeling of *this is scripted, this is scripted* - I think it would make the virtual world, and the character much more immersive and believeable... Anyone remember Bioforge? In the absolute start of the game, you wake up as a horrible cyborg man-machine experiment... in the cell next to you - you meet this other blue man-machine character. You try to talk sense to him - but he just attacks you: I think it is one of my most memorable moments in gaming: all the while beating this blue guy up with his own severed arm - you shout stuff like: "We don't have to fight - you bastard" - ""We can work together .. aaarrrgghhh *beating him continously with his own arm*"... That was great....

Anyway - what would your principles be?

[Ryam BaCo]

when i hear my character breathing i'm always thinking that he's a chain smoker or something like that. when indy in indiana jones 6 (?) starts gasping after running/climbing/fighting i'm thinking something like "wtf??? hey, this is indiana jones, the ultimative hero and not a old man with poor health!"

oh...and here...two of my design-principles i used for my previous nwn-module and will still use for the future:

1) i try to keep the game/story-style as unique as possible in a way that has never been there before. for example in my nwn-module (wah! i'm always writing about my nwn-module...grbml) i told myself not to copy anything from lucasarts-adventures, although there was a high temptation, because of the monkey island-similar background (you drive to an island meet a bunch of insane characters,...).

2) small poems and puzzles based on them or other little details (in my nwn-module i wrote the history of royal wood worms(!) or wrote down different for the game unimportant story-details about historical "facts", like the creation and destruction of an underwater-town,...)

there was also this plan to let the story end in sixth-sense-style, but i only implemented half of the whole planned plot, because i wanted to release the whole stuff not in about 100 years, and so...hmm...well...all in one my nwn-module ended up undone, filled with some terrible design-mistakes and a bunch of bugs. so...hmmm...not satisfying for myself although the response for this piece of crap was unexpected good. anyway...some people are still waiting for part 2 of my module...and they can wait...a long time...hahahahaha

[Salka]

Characters have various idle animations including "take out your phone and SMS", "Yoyo", "Picking nose" and "scratching butt".

I am half serious, though. Idle animations mean a lot to me. I'd rather not have a character standing staring into space.

Also, body language when speaking to other characters.

Too much needs to be said through the script in a game. In real life, a lot is said through body language. I wish game characters would use more body language.

[MrHoatzin]

What is it with you and body positions language?

[Salka]

People say so much with body language than they don't say with words.

Like my mouth twitching before I found out that Milica is your sister. That kind of thing. If I was in a video game, since I wouldn't have enough detail in my facial animation to twitch my mouth, I would have had to say something unsubtle like, "Oh, Milicia. Who the hell is she?"

Which could be said just as easily by twitching my mouth. And is probably a lot funnier that way.

Now you can have enough detail in a character for small things like this. And not just details like that, either. I wish a little more thought would be put in to things like how close characters stand to each other, or things like that. Are they crossing their arms when they speak to each other? Are they looking at the other person or away from them? Do they try to avoid contact with that person or are they friendly and close with them? At the moment in video games I've noticed that characters movements don't depend at all on the people around them, but on the ongoing 'personality' of that character.

I don't know if I'm making much sense, here. Hm. I mean, one character might be a 'strong, determined character'. She might cross her arms determinedly while talking. But let's say her love interest is the person she's talking to; in real life, she's not going to cross her arms, because it's quite a hostile action. She's going to have her arms folded slightly in front of her at most.

It might seem like a small detail, but I love small details. And it would make character interactions with each other so much more interesting.

[Jayel]

Mine would be to give npcs some scheduled daily tasks. Like in some Ultima games or Gothic games. Make them actually interact with the world, instead of standing around like idiots as in Deus Ex 2

[Ryam BaCo]

half-life 2 will use facial expressions, yuf

check this one out:

http://archive.gamespy.com/gdc2004/hl2chars/

[Salka]

Not just facial expression, actual whole body language.

[Marek]

Yeah they do that too.

[Salka]

Oh. Well. That is amazing. I wish people would do that more...

[shbazjinkens]

  Yufster said:

Characters have various idle animations including "take out your phone and SMS", "Yoyo", "Picking nose" and "scratching butt".

Rather unrefined, but #4 is done!

Hearing the breathing all of the time would really get on my nerves, not intensify the atmosphere. I can deal with a little hard breathing after running or bursting out from underwater, but all the time? Nah.. I can hear my own breathing for that.

[hermes]

The breathing would have to be very subtle - it shouldn't be laud and clear. But just there all the time under all the noises and music already going on... You as a player - wouldn't even think about it after you got used to it... but it would create a rythm... the rythm of living so to speak... the changing dynamics of it would sub-liminally effect you.

There's a lot of reasearch done with this in the world of acting - Try to focus at something specific - preferably living. If you then change your normal breathing to one where you only breathe with you mouth, quite deep and rythmically - if you do it correctly there will be a specific effect in your perception of that object. If you try, you should be able to guess it....

Anyway, my point is, that when hearing discrete breathing in a game you would unconciously emulate the same mode of breathing, and thereby become very 'connected' to the characters current 'state'....

I think there was a japanese console-adventure game, which used rather audible breathing as an effect to underscore the 'horror'-mood of the game... The most common sound was -as you explored this vast empty space-station where something awfull involving ghosts was going on - your own heavy breathing inside your space-helmet... I can't remember what it was called...sorry

[shbazjinkens]

IMO, breathing is still the kind of thing that should be optional in the game menus. I can understand how it would get some people more into the game, but I tend to be disconnected in most games anyway so it would just seem weird for me.

[hermes]

You're of course right. It would only be viable in certain kinds of game, and certain kinds of style, where the immersive aspect is a main point of the gameplay. Many games are, and should be, more casual - and fun. In these it would be stupid to try to affect the players feelings....

[Ryam BaCo]

i think that an implementation of "breathing-sounds" could easily turn into an exaggerated and unrealistic effect, because i usually don't hear myself breathing (i'm not darth vader, i'm not an astronaut and i'm not an eighty years old chainsmoker... )- why should i do so in games?

but seeing someone breathe would be amazing. and i don't only mean the up and down of the thorax. that is nothing new. but there could be other details, that will let the environment appear more realistic. sooo for instance if you could see the "clouds" coming out of your nose/mouth when it's cold our when you get closer to a mirror/window and "breath on it" that you see the residues, which slowly disappear like in real life. something like that would be amazing.

[AGA]

A normal, calm, walking pace shouldn't be audible, but the second some guy with a gun, or big, scary monster turns up, I know I'd be bricking it, and my heart would be beating like a drum. I can certainly hear myself breath when I'm breathing heavily...

[hermes]

Yes it seems that you would need heavy-breathing a lot more in games than real life... what with all the running and saving the world, aliens, monsters big guns etc etc

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Actually there are already a handful of games out there that are thoughtful enough to include idle animations, if not the suggestion of body language. Check out:

No One Lives Forever 2 - characters smoke, walk around, sigh, roll their eyes, shift their bodies, etc., possibly the most sophisticated so far out all the games

Silent Hill 2 and 3 - your avatar stands contrapasto, looks around, etc.

American McGee's Alice - she plays with her toy/weapons and generally fidgets

Prince of Persia: The Sands Of Time - leave the Prince and Farah alone and watch what happens (no, not that you pervert!)

[Jake]

If the game is good, you should be doing the heavy breathing

[Fastback]

Fastbacks Game Law #1

All characters in game including the controlled character should feel the need for a piss every 1-3 hours. If this need is not satisfied the character trousers/skirt should grow a dark patch in proportion to the amount of liquids drunk in game with a puddle at their feet.

Fastbacks Game Law #2

All characters who have created a puddle underneith them should leave footprints and any interaction with other characters should within 10-20 seconds be paused, the non puddle character should flarie their nostrils and state "did you piss yourself mate?"

[Nick]

  Jake said:

If the game is good, you should be doing the heavy breathing

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Dude!

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[arrr_matey]

  Fastback said:

Fastbacks Game Law #1

All characters in game including the controlled character should feel the need for a piss every 1-3 hours. If this need is not satisfied the character trousers/skirt should grow a dark patch in proportion to the amount of liquids drunk in game with a puddle at their feet.

Fastbacks Game Law #2

All characters who have created a puddle underneith them should leave footprints and any interaction with other characters should within 10-20 seconds be paused, the non puddle character should flarie their nostrils and state "did you piss yourself mate?"

Man, these two laws rank you right up there with Einstein and Newton. That's such an awesome idea.

I heard in the new GTA game, your character will get fat unless you exercise, making him run slower and stuff. They should totally implement a piss-your-pants mode!

[arrr_matey]

  Yufster said:

Characters have various idle animations including "take out your phone and SMS", "Yoyo", "Picking nose" and "scratching butt".

I've just been playing Rise to Honor and some of the security guards in the really annoying and pointless stealth missions scratch their butt when they stand still.

A yoyo would be pretty damn funny. Makes me think of the Goonies game for NES. Man, I loved that game, but I could never beat it.

[Jake]

  Nick said:

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Dude!

Dude Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Awwwwwwwwww dude!

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Whatever you've just done, it scares me.