Idle Thumbs 45: Episode Forty-Five

[Matshelge]

  SometingStupid said:

As far as I'm concerned project zer0 is such a cliche stereotype that she makes me not want to play the game, simply because I'm not sure if I could put up with her.

I find it weird that people use the word "clichè" for this character.

I mean, could anyone argue that the idea of a bald, sailor talking, bikini clad woman has been used in so many forms, (tv, movies, games, books, music) that it has glided into popular culture and no longer resonates in any meaningful way?

I think the fact that people are even talking about it shows that this is not the case. If anything, this Zero person is a stereotype, but I would say that we have so few examples of this type of character in all media that would be hard to argue as well.

I know it sounds like I am arguning semantics, but clearly, if you do not like this character, and the base for this is "she is a clichè", then the answer is no, you are using that word wrong. Try to tell me again why you don't like the character.

And while she is no Zoey or Faith, she is far more "real" then Marcus Fenix ever was.

And maybe that was the whole idea, make Marcus Fenix into a chick, and see how that works.

[Chris]

  Matshelge said:

I find it weird that people use the word "clichè" for this character.

I mean, could anyone argue that the idea of a bald, sailor talking, bikini clad woman has been used in so many forms, (tv, movies, games, books, music) that it has glided into popular culture and no longer resonates in any meaningful way?

I think the fact that people are even talking about it shows that this is not the case. If anything, this Zero person is a stereotype, but I would say that we have so few examples of this type of character in all media that would be hard to argue as well.

I know it sounds like I am arguning semantics, but clearly, if you do not like this character, and the base for this is "she is a clichè", then the answer is no, you are using that word wrong. Try to tell me again why you don't like the character.

And while she is no Zoey or Faith, she is far more "real" then Marcus Fenix ever was.

And maybe that was the whole idea, make Marcus Fenix into a chick, and see how that works.

To me, "cliche" has little to do with my aversion to this trailer and character, although I think you could certainly characterize the name "Subject Zero" in that way, particularly within the nerd arts of comic books, video games, and genre film. Your point I think is a good one though broadly speaking.

[syntheticgerbil]

  Matshelge said:

I mean, could anyone argue that the idea of a bald, sailor talking, bikini clad woman has been used in so many forms, (tv, movies, games, books, music) that it has glided into popular culture and no longer resonates in any meaningful way?

You're putting too many specifics concerning her appearance and exact personality as subject zero into one sentence to make her seem incredibly unique rather than understanding specifically what kind of broad character archetype stock she comes from and why this character is so lazy on the part of the writers.

I can bet you no one is thinking a bald, tattooed woman is going to have anything sweet to say, so what's expected is written. To even have the juxtaposition of a sweet-natured yet strong woman who doesn't curse non-stop would be breaking some boundaries, but maybe would be a bad choice for selling a game in the US that should be enticing players to gear up for a lot of shooting.

It's like if I were to pick out specifics in the differences between the wives in King of Queens, The George Lopez Show, and Everybody Loves Raymond based on appearances or individual situations. I could pick out things that set them apart but it wouldn't address the fact they all have the same wife.

[Matshelge]

I also think we need to go see what sort of issues people have had with the lovestories in other bioware/obsidian games.

Baldur's Gate never let you get it on with the Viconia DeVir, NWN2 never let you get anywhere with Neskaa. In NWN, there was 2 love stories, but you needed to be good for both. In Kotor there was complaints that Mission did not have a love story attached. If you look toward the modding scene, adding a love story for a evil character, female characters, homosexual characters, these are the most popular ones. I think BioWare is thinking about how to add a lovestory for everyone playing, no matter what type of character you play.

You can see this in Dragon Age, where you see 4 love stories, 2 for each sex, one for evil one for good.

I think Miss Zero is Viconia DeVir in space.

[Ondore]

I just hope someone updates the blog soon, every time I go to the front page and see Bobby Kotick I want to put my fist through my PC screen.

[vimes]

The issue with Project Zero's kind of character is that, because they are extreme, they do not leave a lot of room for development or characterization.

We've seen subject zero before : she's the steel thong wearing female villain in Warrior Within, Carrie Ann Moss' character in Red Planet who showers naked with her all male platoon because 'they are first and foremost soldiers, and then men and women, so no shame to have' or Dushku's character in ... well, any of her works.

And none of them had particularly interesting development : they're just a fantasma of 'strong women = male in disguise with unapologetic sexual appetite and boobs" and expecting them to deepen from this sort of premise is like expecting the Hamburglar's backstory to be compelling.

[miffy495]

Do the french call him the Burger Burglar? That's rad, I didn't realize.

[vimes]

  miffy495 said:

Do the french call him the Burger Burglar? That's rad, I didn't realize.

I corrected it to 'Hamburglar' after searching on wikipedia, but the translation and alliteration seemed to fit . Frankly, I'm not sure what's his name in French...

Also, an Irish coworker couldn't stop laughing for 20 minutes when I said his prototype was 'rad' because, apparently, he felt this word belonged to the 60's ... and learning it was apparently a shortcut from 'radical' made it sound even more cheesy;(

[Jake]

Haha, "rad" has rolled back around in some regions lately, probably originally ironically but it's stuck for a bit, it seems. I'm sure it will go away again reasonably quickly.

[Psych]

Rad seems more like the 80s than the 60s to me, maybe it's cyclical.

[Rawru]

  syntheticgerbil said:

Speaking of obnoxious, smarmy, and ill-written female characters, I really hate the one in your avatar. Not that Warehouse 13 was really good TV or anything before, but it was okay to put on in the background at work until they had that horrible Claudia character come in. The show has just become unwatchable with nearly every character (her mostly) inserting their little one-liners inbetween every action or pause in conversation. Sheesh.

Hahaha, I was kind of waiting for that. I debated for a second on whether to have her as my avatar since I know she and the show is probably found annoying (I do have hope it will get better). I like Claudia, but of course I'm one of those strange people who can listen to Gilmore Girls or anything by Diablo Cody for long periods to time.

I somehow gravitate to things with bad writing and/or cheese, I'll admit it. Avid fan of the Transporter movies and Tarantino-style things. I'm probably the only person in the world excited for WET. I actually enjoyed the story of Gears of War, although I laughed at Dom's wife, which is probably not what was intended (and perhaps fucked up a bit ). Basically I enjoy shouting Fuck Yeeaaaaaah with characters, or relish in the terribleness of some things. I was definitely one of those people really into MGS but am comfortable saying he can be a pretty bad writer, in a great way.

I actually felt kind of dumb with all the references I mentioned, I looked back and realised there's a lot of japanophile in it. I promise I have decent taste, I just really enjoy shitty things a lot of the time

[miffy495]

I've used rad for a long time. I just really like the word. I have adopted words from pretty much any generation I think would be fun to say. I also say "bully" sometimes, for example...

[Chris]

"Rad" is a great word. I like to think I was in on the ground floor (or earlier than that, whatever building-centric metaphor that is) on the post-80s "rad" revival. I've been saying it for a long time.

[vimes]

I love the sound of rad and I definitely picked it up from the podcast, so you all three are responsible for my social downfall.

[GameDreamer]

Same here, it's worked its way into my everyday vocabulary whereas I used to never say it. Ever. Thanks, 'thumbs!

[F4T C4T]

The word 'Rad' just brings apocalyptic images to my mind.

Also I'm English so even though I like the word, it's hard to use it in everyday speech without sounding like an idiot. I also prefer the American 'ass' to the English 'arse' but again I sound like an idiot if I say it out loud.

I think it's my accent, it's just not cool enough.

[syntheticgerbil]

  Rawru said:

I somehow gravitate to things with bad writing and/or cheese, I'll admit it. Avid fan of the Transporter movies and Tarantino-style things. I'm probably the only person in the world excited for WET. I actually enjoyed the story of Gears of War, although I laughed at Dom's wife, which is probably not what was intended (and perhaps fucked up a bit ). Basically I enjoy shouting Fuck Yeeaaaaaah with characters, or relish in the terribleness of some things. I was definitely one of those people really into MGS but am comfortable saying he can be a pretty bad writer, in a great way.

Ah, well that makes sense. I guess I enjoy leaving cheese on just to have noise in the backgrounds so I just sort of leave Hulu going in a back window while I'm working, but I guess her character got a bit much for me. Maybe they'll tone it down a bit so I can watch it again?

And there's nothing more rad than RAD MOBILE:

E8c7JLICSC8&hl

(I could be wrong, but when this game was featured in the movie Encino Man, I think the filmmakers added the guy continuously reading the title "Rad Mobile" over and over to the game.)

[Fuzzy Lobster]

Maybe "rad" is a regional thing, because I say it all the time too and have no idea why....

When I lived overseas, I too was picked on by Irish people for it.

[I came from Kinjuju]

So did we ever find out what game Nick played? Or was it just a magazine?

[GameDreamer]

FAR CRY 2!

[Korax]

  GameDreamer said:

FAR CRY 2!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH!!!

[Hermie]

Rad is a great word, I associate it with stuff that is cool, in that slightly cheesy way, but is aware of it. For example, Big Trouble In Little China is in all respects, a 'rad' movie.

Also: The Totally Rad Show.

[SometingStupid]

  Matshelge said:

I find it weird that people use the word "clichè" for this character.

I mean, could anyone argue that the idea of a bald, sailor talking, bikini clad woman has been used in so many forms, (tv, movies, games, books, music) that it has glided into popular culture and no longer resonates in any meaningful way?

And while she is no Zoey or Faith, she is far more "real" then Marcus Fenix ever was.

I was talking about the name but also the emphasis on having a badass swearing character (This especially for women) that can do nothing but bring out lines such as "Who's the badass biotic now, B**ch. Although I see the fact that a bald, bikini clad tough gal hasn't been used so much as a valid argument, but why did they make a character like this as opposed to Ashley to bring the same point across?

[Irishjohn]

  Patters said:

old wrappers were better.

Oh wow, I've been living outside Europe for five years and I've never seen that new wrapper on trips home for Christmas.

It makes me a little sad.

[BTaylor]

It's like BioWare read some Warren Ellis comics, saw some Suicide Girls, and thought to themselves, "We want us some of that!"