L.A. Noire

[Patters]

Say what?! Are you sure about that? It seems crazy that they wouldn't use the same engine...

Yep, Bondi had built their engine before Rockstar got involved with the project.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Yep, Bondi had built their engine before Rockstar got involved with the project.

Ouch. That must have stung. I'm guessing it would have reduced costs massively if they could have had access to it. That said, its final incarnation is almost identical to GTAIV's engine, even in how it feels and reacts. Maybe Rockstar got involved later?

[toblix]

I read somewhere that Rockstar has this thing where they work really hard to make all their games have the same Rockstar feeling, or something. I guess that's why it feels so much like GTA. It would also explain all the arms.

[Patters]

Ouch. That must have stung. I'm guessing it would have reduced costs massively if they could have had access to it. That said, its final incarnation is almost identical to GTAIV's engine, even in how it feels and reacts. Maybe Rockstar got involved later?

From what I've heard a bunch of assets and code was taken from Euphoria. As well as the faces wouldn't have worked in Euphoria.

[ThunderPeel2001]

From what I've heard a bunch of assets and code was taken from Euphoria. As well as the faces wouldn't have worked in Euphoria.

According to Wikipedia GTAIV used Euphoria. Does that mean anything? :-/

[toblix]

Euphoria is just the character IK engine that makes people spill their drinks and tumble down stairs.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I suppose that explains some similarities, then.

[Patters]

According to Wikipedia GTAIV used Euphoria. Does that mean anything? :-/

Yeah, Euphoria is the animation engine, used in GTA IV, RDR and Force Unleashed. I'm not certain of any of this but it is possible that parts of that or RAGE were used in LA Noire.

[Thrik]

Mm, yeah. Euphoria is non-Rockstar middleware that can theoretically be integrated into any game. It basically makes animations dynamic and intelligent rather than being fixed and scripted. Interestingly enough its debut was with LucasArts' cancelled Indiana Jones game for this gen.

But yeah, a lot of effort has been clearly made to make this feel like Rockstar's other efforts. I think this detracts in some ways; I personally could have done with the camera being a bit closer to the player. I guess it shows that Rockstar's design is more philosophical rather than technical, though. With some relatively minor work (crosshairs, camera distance, control bindings, mini-map) it feels decidedly Rockstar despite not actually being that much Rockstar.

[Murdoc]

RAGE is Rockstars Engine and Euphoria work with it. LA Noire was built on RAGE and used Euphoria. Further, Rockstar was using the FX house that did the facial mocap for Benjamin Button since Lost and the Damned and LA Noire shows they really nailed it, mostly.

Im not sure how middleware Euphoria is these days, because so far only Rockstar uses it now. I heard a rumour that they made an exclusive deal and/or bought them a year ago, but no announcement was ever made.

I don't know how big of a difference it makes to other people, but as someone whoes worked with the system and plays most of their games, it's really hard to compare it to anything else... its just so smooth and dynamic.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Aha! So that's the engine name. What's weird is that some sources claim that Team Bondi used their own engine, while others claim (with equal confidence) that it used Rockstar's RAGE engine. Interesting...

[Murdoc]

Yeah I couldn't say which is correct, Thunderpeel. I heard the same thing about them using their own engine, but if that isn't RAGE, I'll eat my hat. (I dont own a hat)

My only guess just based on playing the game is the production was a sorted affair and they eventually either integrated the engines architecture eventually, or just switched over at one point.

[ThunderPeel2001]

but if that isn't RAGE, I'll eat my hat. (I dont own a hat)

Here, borrow mine...

My only guess just based on playing the game is the production was a sorted affair and they eventually either integrated the engines architecture eventually, or just switched over at one point.

Yeah, I think that's most likely. It feels SO much like RAGE.

[Thrik]

I don't think it's RAGE. While LA Noire certainly feels like a game using Rockstar's engine, everything I've seen during and after the game's release indicates it uses Bondi's own engine (at this point it may be worth showing a clip of

). Also I don't think LA Noire looks like RAGE — it's hard to put my finger on what exactly I mean by that, but it lacks the lighting characteristics and detail that Rockstar's efforts have featured (this could be down to art direction but I suspect not).

There's no doubt about the fact that Rockstar will have had considerable influence over how exactly certain mechanics look and feel so it's in line with GTA4 and RDR, but that's not really an engine thing — don't forget RAGE was also used for Rockstar's tennis game, which certainly didn't have a GTA4 or RDR feel.

I mean, you don't just switch from one engine to another. There's no way Rockstar came in at the stage they did and started the game's development again using their own engine. I do think Murdoc's right in saying that some code was probably shared, but not to the extent that it could be anywhere near considered a variation of RAGE.

Euphoria definitely goes a long way towards making it feel decidedly Rockstar though, as their games are probably its most prominent test cases thus far. That was one of GTA4's biggest advanced for me and I've been overjoyed to see it also implemented in RDR and LA:N.

[toblix]

If wonder how you people have been seeing Euphoria in action so much playing L.A. Noire. Surely you conducted yourself like a proper police officer at all times?

[Thrik]

Well you see it when simply using stairs and stuff, but I have to admit while walking back to the station from an attempted murder scene I accidentally knocked some poor guy down a flight of steps and he broke his neck.

[toblix]

I had a hilarious moment when I was entering my car just like I usually do. Phelps went around to the driver's side and was about to open the door when a huge-ass truck drove into him an pinned him to the police car. Phelps let out a horrible, bloodcurdling scream as his intestines and spine were twisted and broken by the powerful truck slowly grinding against him. However, moments later the truck managed to get loose and continued on its way; Phelps was also seemingly unaffected by the whole thing, and just got in his car like nothing had happened. It's moments like that that in part define Rockstar games. There's just so many things going on there's bound to be weird edge cases where bugs come together to make something special happen.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I ran over quite a few people while I was driving to cases, but not once did I ever get an "injury" penalty. Weird.

[Murdoc]

I was going to take a closer look at the game to see the engine mechanics, but I decided to just ask; it's not rage.

I guess most of the feel comes from euphoria.

[Brannigan]

so they just announced a PC version.

[miffy495]

Oh goddamnit. I figured after Red Dead I should just buy the console version if I was interested. Stupid everything.

[Raff]

I just bought RDR for Xbox so prepare for the inevitable RDR PC announcement.

[elmuerte]

RDR PS3 just arrived for me... so there won't be a PC version of it

[ThunderPeel2001]

Not sure why you'd want a PC version anyway. Those ports tend not to be very good, right? (Bully, GTA:IV, etc.)

[JonCole]

Not sure why you'd want a PC version anyway. Those ports tend not to be very good, right? (Bully, GTA:IV, etc.)

Motion sickness problems, preference of PC controls (may or may not include general lack of southpaw control schemes), not having an HDTV, etc.