Perfect Dark XBLA

[miffy495]

I've noticed at least three other thumbs on my friends list playing this, so I figured I'd create a thread. I've only played through the DataDyne intro missions so far, but I'm really impressed by how this game has held up. In HD and with the higher polycount characters, it looks almost on par with Halo (1) and still plays surprisingly well given the way they've attempted to keep the feel of the N64 controls while modernizing them at the same time. I haven't played this game since I was 15, so I started on Agent difficulty just in case the game started kicking my ass. I'm completing all the Perfect Agent missions while going through the early levels out of habit and getting confused that it's not saying "objective complete" when I do a thing. I guess I'll have to bump it up sooner or later. I don't know if it will become a mainstay multiplayer game, but any thumbs up for a nostalgia deathmatch or something, hit me up. I got the expansion pack for my xbox, so I can play with more than 2 people at a time and everything.

[pabosher]

I've noticed at least three other thumbs on my friends list playing this, so I figured I'd create a thread. I've only played through the DataDyne intro missions so far, but I'm really impressed by how this game has held up. In HD and with the higher polycount characters, it looks almost on par with Halo (1) and still plays surprisingly well given the way they've attempted to keep the feel of the N64 controls while modernizing them at the same time. I haven't played this game since I was 15, so I started on Agent difficulty just in case the game started kicking my ass. I'm completing all the Perfect Agent missions while going through the early levels out of habit and getting confused that it's not saying "objective complete" when I do a thing. I guess I'll have to bump it up sooner or later. I don't know if it will become a mainstay multiplayer game, but any thumbs up for a nostalgia deathmatch or something, hit me up. I got the expansion pack for my xbox, so I can play with more than 2 people at a time and everything.

Once my sodding Xbox gets sent back (although, admittedly, I should probably send it off first...) I will definetely get this game.

You were 15 when you last played this, I was... 7? lol - I can just about remember an awesome laptop gun, and one that shot through walls. I loved that game.

[Squid Division]

The first thing I booted up was the Combat Simulator and noticed that most of the stuff wasn't there. I had forgotten that you had to unlock it all, but how's that going to work when you're not all on the same console? Also I don't see an option to divide teams up how you want, it's only what the game generates, which is never two humans on the same team unless you do humans vs. simulants.

That said, it's never been so fun to get gang rushed by kaze sims.

Anyone figure out if you can do a ranked match with friends, or is it random only?

Edited March 17, 2010 by Squid Division

[miffy495]

Patters, his non-thumb friend, my non-thumb friend, and I just spent a little over an hour playing some 4 player free for all. Was good fun. We did the first two challenges as well, which were automatically humans vs. simulants. Patters was host though, so all the game settings were up to him. We didn't play any mode other than free for all when it was non-challenge though, so no idea yet.

Really liking the way this game is handling. Aside from the fact that I couldn't throw a handful of Doritos at Pat when he pinball grenaded me, it felt like I was back in high school/junior high sitting around a TV with a group of friends. Good times.

[Patters]

Patters, his non-thumb friend, my non-thumb friend, and I just spent a little over an hour playing some 4 player free for all. Was good fun. We did the first two challenges as well, which were automatically humans vs. simulants. Patters was host though, so all the game settings were up to him. We didn't play any mode other than free for all when it was non-challenge though, so no idea yet.

Really liking the way this game is handling. Aside from the fact that I couldn't throw a handful of Doritos at Pat when he pinball grenaded me, it felt like I was back in high school/junior high sitting around a TV with a group of friends. Good times.

Hey your friend wanted to play Deathmatch only. I offered alternative game types but they were always put down. I really wish they had all of the Goldeneye maps, I would have loved to play a snipers match in Siberia. It feels like playing Goldeneye again, which ain't a bad thing.

[miffy495]

Deathmatch just seemed like the simplest way to keep everybody happy. It usually is. Dude played nothing but Perfect Dark on the N64 from 2000 to 2006, when he got a Wii. He skipped the console generation in between in favor of more PD. He may be a little set in his ways, but I'll keep after him and break him out of it eventually. I like that the game has Goldeneye weapons and maps. We should do a "classic" weapons match on Facility or Complex sometime soon. About as close as we'll ever get to the real thing online, short of Goldeneye Source.

EDIT: And I should add that as this guy was one of my best friends in those days (still pretty tight, considering that I have barely talked to most people from the day since then), having him there and talking trash with him definitely upped the nostalgia factor. I need to see if my buddy Dylan has this. Then the only person missing from our 4-person PD sessions in high school would be missing because he doesn't have an Xbox. Getting the crew back together for some online would be sweet.

Edited March 17, 2010 by miffy495

[Squid Division]

Any idea how to unlock the rest of the weapons for the combat simulator? Lots of the guns are missing.

[Patters]

Deathmatch just seemed like the simplest way to keep everybody happy. It usually is. Dude played nothing but Perfect Dark on the N64 from 2000 to 2006, when he got a Wii. He skipped the console generation in between in favor of more PD. He may be a little set in his ways, but I'll keep after him and break him out of it eventually. I like that the game has Goldeneye weapons and maps. We should do a "classic" weapons match on Facility or Complex sometime soon. About as close as we'll ever get to the real thing online, short of Goldeneye Source.

EDIT: And I should add that as this guy was one of my best friends in those days (still pretty tight, considering that I have barely talked to most people from the day since then), having him there and talking trash with him definitely upped the nostalgia factor. I need to see if my buddy Dylan has this. Then the only person missing from our 4-person PD sessions in high school would be missing because he doesn't have an Xbox. Getting the crew back together for some online would be sweet.

Yeah, it really brings back memories. This is probably the best remake I have played in a long time, in fact all of the Rare ports are damn good. It's clearly done by fans of the game, admittedly I had never played PD before today, though the amount of Goldeneye I have played more than makes up for that.

The retextures of the game have done a world of good.

[miffy495]

Yeah, I've been noticing that quite a lot. Played the Chicago mission earlier and I could actually tell what was supposed to be happening. The context of that level had eluded me up until today, due to everything being so horribly muddy and weird. It feels so much less abstract and comprehensible. On one hand, I'm using my imagination less. On the other, holy shit, that was supposed to be a hover car? That makes WAY more sense!

[Nevsky]

The retextures of the game have done a world of good.

Holy cow! Definitely going to check this out now. I was a big Goldeneye player, but skipped over Perfect Dark. My friends were more inclined towards Smash Bros and Mario Kart, and before we knew it we'd transferred over to the Dreamcast anyway. But I'll give this a try.

[Patters]

Holy cow! Definitely going to check this out now. I was a big Goldeneye player, but skipped over Perfect Dark. My friends were more inclined towards Smash Bros and Mario Kart, and before we knew it we'd transferred over to the Dreamcast anyway. But I'll give this a try.

It's only 800 microsoft points, easily worth that, particularly as the aforementioned Banjo ports are 1200.

[Garple]

Do you guys think this game would appeal to someone who never played it, never owned an N64 and therefore has no nostalgia for it?

[miffy495]

Well, if you're looking for "never played it" then Patters fits the bill. Although he spent so much time with its predecessor that it may not count for you. In that case, I believe that it's held up amazingly well, but I'll throw out some potential negatives for a newcomer:

1) The map design is of the oldest of schools.

By this I mean that it's all very stark shapes and there's really only one path through a level, but they hide that by having a lot of booby-trap rooms. If you go along the correct path, you'll find probably about half of the enemies in a level. There's no indicator that you're on the right path until you get to the end though, and it's very easy to get lost. This is to give you the illusion of an open map, and it works as well as could be expected in a 2000 console shooter. They keep you thinking that you're going the right way when you're not by filling all of the dead end areas with a crapton of enemies, so you'll get shot up a lot while exploring too.

2) The controls are adapted from an N64 pad

Although there are other control methods (called "Spartan" and something like "Duty Calls") that I haven't tried, by default the controller settings are pretty much N64. It goes for the same method most shooter developers used on the system, where the C buttons were basically used as a second stick, so they just mapped those functions to the right stick now. This means that you can now do things a hell of a lot easier, and it controls much much better than I remember it. The autoaim has not been changed though, so it's still amazingly generous. I saw an interview with Ken Lobb where he said that they kept this in to keep the speedrunners happy, as this game was big for that in the day and the autoaim was a big part of strategies. I'm not positive, but I think the other control methods do away with it, or at least reduce it, so if you don't like it you may be able to change it. Still, by default, the controls are a bit archaic and the autoaim is HUGE. Also, while we're talking about archaic control, you need to manually switch to your fists to do a melee attack. No simple tapping of a button here.

3) The story is from a time when games rarely took themselves seriously.

Almost more of a plus for me, but if you're looking for a game with a real plot, you're going to be disappointed. Two rival companies are being funded by two warring alien species, the Maians (standard, Area 51-style "greys") and the Skedar (giant reptilians). You work for the dudes allied with the Maians. If breaking into Area 51 to bust out a grey who may or may not have actually been Elvis back in the day (and still goes by the name) and then having to decide which US President is real and which one is a clone (and of course, killing the clone) sounds ridiculous and easy to miss for you, then you may want to give this game a pass. If it sounds awesome beyond words, we should be pals.

Basically any of this says that the game was designed 10 years ago and it shows. If you can get yourself into that mindset, it's amazing. It was one of the best console games of its day, easily, and I'd say is worth experiencing. You do need a certain tolerance for the old though. I've been loving these Rare remakes on XBLA. I have all of them (including Jetpac! Whoo!) and all this is making me really want DK64 on Wii or Jet Force Gemini on XBLA. Blast Corps on whoever owns it. The Banjo games were totally worth the $15 for me, and this one is amazing value for $10. At least try the demo and see what you think.

[Squid Division]

For me Perfect Dark has always been about the multiplayer (called the Combat Simulator in the game). It is customizable to the point of no other FPS since. You can set up AI bots and define their behavior (Venge sim goes after the person who killed him last, Judge sim goes after the person in first, Peace sim just runs around disarming everyone, Kaze sim is the craziest motherfucker ever). The multiplayer is very much more arcade-y and Goldeneye-like, or Timesplitters-like if you've played those (many Rare people went on to make the Timesplitters games).

[JonCole]

Okay, you fuckers convinced me. I'm gonna buy it now.

[Patters]

Okay, you fuckers convinced me. I'm gonna buy it now.

[Garple]

Thanks, Miffy for taking so much time to answer my question. I have downloaded the demo and will definitely spend at least an hour with it due to your good salesmanship. Also: I got excited when you said the game doesn't take itself seriously. I didn't like the Bayonetta demo, but when I heard about how much that game did NOT take itself seriously I was like: CAR --> BEST BUY --> PURCHASE WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT, and I loved that game. within the next 120 minutes I'll start the Perfect Dark demo, and if I'm lucky, I'll have a religious experience like I did with my other N64 throwback attempt, Sin & Punishment (if anyone has a Wii and has not played S&P...fucking do so. If you like action video games AT ALL this game will become your new God for at least a little while).

[pabosher]

Thanks, Miffy for taking so much time to answer my question. I have downloaded the demo and will definitely spend at least an hour with it due to your good salesmanship. Also: I got excited when you said the game doesn't take itself seriously. I didn't like the Bayonetta demo, but when I heard about how much that game did NOT take itself seriously I was like: CAR --> BEST BUY --> PURCHASE WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT, and I loved that game. within the next 120 minutes I'll start the Perfect Dark demo, and if I'm lucky, I'll have a religious experience like I did with my other N64 throwback attempt, Sin & Punishment (if anyone has a Wii and has not played S&P...fucking do so. If you like action video games AT ALL this game will become your new God for at least a little while).

I have to say; If you haven't played PD before, I think you should be a little cautious. It was/is a great game for the N64 era, but if you've grown accustomed to the whole Call of Duty/Halo style of FPS, and expect PD to be similar, then you're way off. I loved this game back in the day, and when my 360 gets sent back I fully intend on buying it, but I can see why someone who doesn't have the nostalgia trip to rely on may not like the experience.

[Mafro]

I forgot how absolutely ridiculous the voiceovers in this are, particularly Daniel Carrington's which is just brilliant.

It feels odd playing it at such a stable framerate.

[Nevsky]

It's only 800 microsoft points, easily worth that, particularly as the aforementioned Banjo ports are 1200.

Yep, I got it after all. I had 2000 points spare and if there will be one or two Thumbs-related deathmatch games, then that'll be worth it.

Plus, ha! I'd completely forgotten about the whole explorable Carrington Institute. It's huge! With that, the shooting gallery and the immense multiplayer / co-operative / counter-operative stuff, this is quite a package.

[mikemariano]

I downloaded and played the demo last night; ummm....

Err....

Wow, this is what FPS gaming was on the consoles 10 years ago?

SpeedyDesiato and miffy495: I think I'm the kind of person you had in mind who might have trouble with this game. The only N64 game I've played is Ocarina of Time on Virtual Console, so I have no nostalgia for Goldeneye or Perfect Dark.

I enjoyed Serious Sam on XBLA, which I hadn't played before. But I think "run fast and kill dudes" is easier to get into than "turn slowly and kill dudes".

And the level design! Perfect Dark's office building had a billion different ways to enter the same room. I wandered around the main floor six times before I saw the elevator to the basement.

I had a similar problem with Marathon on XBLA; it's way too easy to get lost in the smallest of spaces. It kills the action.

I guess multiplayer is a lot better?

[miffy495]

The mulitplayer is basically Quake 2 mulitplayer, but with all sorts of crazy mods and pretty well designed levels. Comparing PD to Serious Sam isn't really fair, as SS is completely a PC pure action shooter and PD was made at a slower pace to accommodate the console controls. If you weren't playing on a PC, this was as good as shooters got until Halo, when we got a second analog stick. In that respect, it's incredibly cool to have it as a historical record. The level design is certainly as you said, which I think I explained well enough earlier. It's simply a different mentality. Have you tried to replay any late 90s PC games lately? That's just kind of how maps worked. Everything looked the same and there were doors to nowhere everywhere. PD is still one of those. That's what I meant by "the oldest of schools." It feels like the Quake 2 single player levels, which I could never find my damn way through.

If you don't like it you don't like it. Don't force yourself. It's a specific kind of design that doesn't really exist anymore, and probably died out for a reason. If you can't or don't want to shift your brain back to a state where that kind of thing was the norm, you'll only frustrate yourself further. If you haven't played PD before, I think PDXBLA is mostly interesting for historical education and, of course, Thumb deathmatch and trash talking.

[Garple]

Yeah, considering Halo 3 (of all things) felt outmoded to me once I tried COD:WAW which has a run button, this is probably not for me either. My first FPS was Timesplitters which I only liked because of the weird characters and the multiplayer chaos, but back in the Perfect Dark days I was always baffled by the appeal of first person shooters. I couldn't understand why people didn't find it utterly bizarre that they couldn't see their character and instead just controlled a floating gun. I mean, I understood the first person concept, so I don't quite mean that literally, but still, a Video game which basically did not have a main character made no sense to me. I liked the first 3rd person James Bond game that came out on Playstation a couple years after Goldeneye but could never get into Goldeneye.

Man...nostalgia moment. I forget what that game was called...but it had a skiing mission! How awesome is that?

[Patters]

Yeah, considering Halo 3 (of all things) felt outmoded to me once I tried COD:WAW which has a run button, this is probably not for me either. My first FPS was Timesplitters which I only liked because of the weird characters and the multiplayer chaos, but back in the Perfect Dark days I was always baffled by the appeal of first person shooters. I couldn't understand why people didn't find it utterly bizarre that they couldn't see their character and instead just controlled a floating gun. I mean, I understood the first person concept, so I don't quite mean that literally, but still, a Video game which basically did not have a main character made no sense to me. I liked the first 3rd person James Bond game that came out on Playstation a couple years after Goldeneye but could never get into Goldeneye.

Man...nostalgia moment. I forget what that game was called...but it had a skiing mission! How awesome is that?

Tomorrow never dies.

[Garple]

Tomorrow never dies.

!!!YES!!!

I feel like I'm living through that moment on Idle Thumbs when Nick remembered the name of that dirtbike game and Jake flipped out. I almost just considered revisiting that game, but I know it would be a bad idea.