GDC 2011: The Idle Thumbs Conf Grenade: Games Kasavin

[Lama Himself]

Great podcast!! But listening to these grenades make me sad because I would like the normal podcast to be back ... Sad Lama ...

Also we need to see this Epic Postit

[Sean]

Props to Jake for Games Kasavin: in the running for one of my favorite Jake titles of a Thumb.

[Hermie]

I want to echo the sentiment of wanting more details/post-its about what grew into Epic Mickey. I assume Getting Drawn Into A Dark Twisted Fantasy World™ and Choosing Between Bad And Good Moral Choices™ both came about from Warren Spector?

...I just realized Warren Spector might be the Tim Burton of the game industry? Or is that Hong Kong American McGee?

[Sean]

  Hermie said:

I want to echo the sentiment of wanting more details/post-its about what grew into Epic Mickey. I assume Getting Drawn Into A Dark Twisted Fantasy World™ and Choosing Between Bad And Good Moral Choices™ both came about from Warren Spector?

...I just realized Warren Spector might be the Tim Burton of the game industry? Or is that Hong Kong American McGee?

I was really balancing a line of what to and not say on the cast -- Epic Mickey is definitely Warren Specter's game and, from what I've played, his vision 100% -- which I totally respect. We spent a few years on the project and got enough umph behind it to get it to be a priority for the console division, but at that time it wasn't even a Wii game. Everything changes.

I'll try to scrounge up a post-it. If/when we ever do another cast and I have my thoughts arranged in a better fashion, I'll try to walk through the story -- Chris is a super good interviewer so maybe him asking me questions about it might work out easier; trying to just riff on this story and not make it sound like we were bitter for Warren stepping in and being Warren is tough. I got a crazy opportunity at a very young age to pitch stuff at Disney and no matter the outcome, I was pretty thrilled.

That being said, if ten years from now someone called me up and said "Come make the Mickey game you pitched in 2005 at Disney," I would immediately assemble a world-destroying team of folks to execute on the original vision -- it would be different from what was released, by a fair amount, but it's important for folks to know that I have the utmost respect for everyone involved with what was ultimately released and those who gave me an invaluable opportunity.

[pabosher]

So what you're saying is

"Sean Vanaman: "We were bitter for Warren stepping in. Warren is tough. If ten years from now someone called me up and said "Come make the Mickey game you pitched in 2005 at Disney," I would immediately assemble a world-destroying team of folks to execute on the original vision -- it would be different from what was released."

[Sean]

/is reminded why the internet is horrible.

/logs off of Idle Thumbs

/deletes account

/kills Chris Remo

/did that last thing for sport

[toblix]

  Vanaman said:

blahblahblah

The story was fantastic, and you didn't come off at all bitter or disappointed. I always assumed stories like that (games that never were, Disney, etc.) could never be told, so thanks for sharing.

[Hermie]

What the Blix said.^

I know the general gaming audience is not super interested in the "real" game-making stories, but there are definitely people like me who find it fascinating.

It's another reason I lament the death of Thumbs, because of the interesting behind-the-scenes stories from both the regular hosts and the guests. I assume this is true for most others members too, so you can bet you have an audience for that here.

(Translated: More! Mooooore.)

[pabosher]

  Hermie said:

What the Blix said.^

I know the general gaming audience is not super interested in the "real" game-making stories, but there are definitely people like me who find it fascinating.

It's another reason I lament the death of Thumbs, because of the interesting behind-the-scenes stories from both the regular hosts and the guests. I assume this is true for most others members too, so you can bet you have an audience for that here.

(Translated: More! Mooooore.)

I mean, it's for this reason I hope that, in some form, writing begins to appear on Idle Thumbs again. I think that if it's an outlet not devoted to news, but to meeting with developers, talking intimately about video games, that would be brilliant. Sort of like 'An Audience with: X Developer' -- I tried doing something similar with Media Molecule, and people seemed to like it. There's definitely an audience for it.

[Lama Himself]

  Vanaman said:

/kills Chris Remo

you cannot, he is 42% balls. By trying you just take the risk he will grows up to 58%

[vimes]

  Vanaman said:

/is reminded why the internet is horrible.

/logs off of Idle Thumbs

/deletes account

/kills Chris Remo

/did that last thing for sport

Actually, during the podcast you did a really good job at telling an Insider Story of Interest and of the Game Industry without sounding like you were boasting about it while not passing any judgment about people involved. That's very, very rare in my experience ... and yes, Remo's way of inquiring about things must have helped.

[Sean]

  vimes said:

Actually, during the podcast you did a really good job at telling an Insider Story of Interest and of the Game Industry without sounding like you were boasting about it while not passing any judgment about people involved. That's very, very rare in my experience ... and yes, Remo's way of inquiring about things must have helped.

i love you guys

/takes it all back

/resurrects chris

/starts with his giant balls

[pabosher]

  Vanaman said:

i love you guys

/takes it all back

/resurrects chris

/starts with his giant balls

Sean Vanaman: "I love ... Chris... with his giant balls."

This episode (and that story in particular) was exactly what I love about video games. Thanks for doing it guys, and thanks Sean for telling that fantastic story

[Roderick]

I must confess that the lack of Far Cry 2 in this follow-up was appalling.

[Thompson]

  Rodi said:

I must confess that the lack of Far Cry 2 in this follow-up was appalling.

A grenade of the lack of Far Cry 2 rolled down the hill of this podcast and into my unhappy face. (See avatar)

[Irishjohn]

  FesteDaFool said:

Thank you very much for these Grenades, they made me very happy during a tough week. It shocks me how much editing Chris is willing to do compared to other people who get paid to make podcasts. I love you guys!

I just want to echo this, really happy to see more podcasts from you guys. Looking forward to listening.

[glennw]

Just stumbled across an interview of Spector talking about Epic Mickey. He says he can't take credit for Oswald or the theme. It is a shame that Famous didn't get to make that beautiful oak tree.

"I said I was interested; I'm a Disney fan from way back, I love cartoons, and it's the most recognizable icon on planet Earth. Who's stupid enough to say 'no, I'm not interested'? So I'm sitting there trying to stay cool. And then they said 'you know we have a concept. Would it be okay if we showed it to you? You don't have to use any of it.' So they showed me this pitch they had and it's genius! I mean there are some foundational elements that they came up with at Disney, that they said, 'you don't have to use it.' Why would I not? I mean, bringing Oswald back? I can't take credit for that. The idea of a world of forgotten and rejected characters? I can't take credit for that.

They threw it at me, and I was happy to catch it. So I told them 'you have just given me an acorn and I am growing it into a beautiful oak tree and everybody else who thinks they’re going to grow that tree, they got another thing coming.'"

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/playstyle-matters-warren-spector-on-disneys-epic-mickey---part-1/

[syntheticgerbil]

Holy shit, the whole Oswald mystery as in, "Why did Disney suddenly feel the need to acquire the rights to a character everyone except animation historians had long since forgotten about and then subsequently put out some merchandising and a game starring starring the character?" is fully explained here as true insider information in an exact place I would never expect it.

It was pretty confusing to see why Disney latched onto Oswald so late, but considering the idea that the Epic Mickey concept came first makes way sense in that order.

This is kind of major information as Sean Vanaman is now part of a thread leading back to the origins of Disney, the company, itself. How crazy for this to suddenly come up in an Idlethumbs podcast.

You truly are famous, Vanaman.

[Murdoc]

I went through all the casts again and arrived at the last one and latched on to something... the failed games talk at GDC.

The guys were talking about a failed giant robot game so I looked it up and apparently it was retooled and released as a flash game:

http://2dboy.com/RobotAndTheCities/

Unfortunately, it's still not fun and the ambitious title that was described by the Thumbs isn't really there, that I can see. For some reason I was imagining a playing one of the disasters in a sim city game more than this. Or maybe they were just imagining the connection to it having some sort of procedural rebuilding of civilization; either way, I want the game discussed.

[Erkki]

  Murdoc said:

http://2dboy.com/RobotAndTheCities/

Unfortunately, it's still not fun and the ambitious title that was described by the Thumbs isn't really there, that I can see. For some reason I was imagining a playing one of the disasters in a sim city game more than this. Or maybe they were just imagining the connection to it having some sort of procedural rebuilding of civilization; either way, I want the game discussed.

I don't remember the episode, but I just played it and kind of liked it. Maybe not fun, but it's not bad for a 7 day game.

[Jake]

  Murdoc said:

I went through all the casts again and arrived at the last one and latched on to something... the failed games talk at GDC.

The guys were talking about a failed giant robot game so I looked it up and apparently it was retooled and released as a flash game:

http://2dboy.com/RobotAndTheCities/

Unfortunately, it's still not fun and the ambitious title that was described by the Thumbs isn't really there, that I can see. For some reason I was imagining a playing one of the disasters in a sim city game more than this. Or maybe they were just imagining the connection to it having some sort of procedural rebuilding of civilization; either way, I want the game discussed.

It looks like what's released is less finished than the one discussed at their panel. And the concept, even what's there, is pretty interesting, but you can see why they didn't finish it.

[Kolzig]

I don't know what's wrong with me, but I saved the listening of this podcast and reading of this thread for one year. I know I posted to this thread back when it was released to thank for releasing new stuff, but hoooooooooooooooooolyyyyyyy crap this was one of the best Thumbs podcasts for me.

Sean Vanaman's Epic Mickey talk was unbelievable, I loved every second of that!

I remember the time when the Oswald news broke out that Disney had bought back the rights, I really had no idea that this was all because of young talented interns like Vanaman thinking up ideas for a game that became Spector's Epic Mickey.

Now I want to see someday a Vanaman and Spector lead Disney game. Who do I have to bribe to make that happen?

[miffy495]

  Kolzig said:

Who do I have to bribe to make that happen?

Disney. Good luck bribing those guys.

[Kolzig]

  Quote

Given that, we asked whether Telltale would be open to an acquisition – by Disney, it's current partner Universal or some other big media company, which would seem best suited to make use of its talents.

"If we found the right situation where we could do that, we would be very interested," Dan Connors says.

Or maybe a merger would solve it.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/166431/Telltales_Dan_Connors_talks_a_new_kind_of_freemium.php

This of course would not be that great, because Telltale would lose their freedom and in the end Disney would just fire people like big companies do to make profit.

[a purple future]

the title of this episode has forever ruined Greg's name in my mind. he is now forever "Games" Kasavin