Feminism

[TychoCelchuuu]

  On 3/19/2014 at 12:05 AM, syntheticgerbil said:

Oh man, the image chosen for Dota Today 11 is terrible. I'm glad even though this woman is in a freezing cold blizzard, she can manage to get her tits out for the fans. Sheesh.

 

Lords Management artists are the worst.

One of the most annoying things is that Valve is usually generally somewhere between fairly good and quite good when it comes to how they portray women in their games, but Dota 2 inherited Blizzard's shitty fucking character design, and Blizzard has never met a woman who, in their eyes, wouldn't be improved if her breasts got larger and her costume got skimpier.

[Twig]

There's Phantom Assassin and Legion Commander, though, at least*. And Windrunner, though she wears a low-cut shirt, does not have enormous breasts! Medusa is just a monster lady. So is Naga. Broodmother is a spider. I think Death Prophet's pretty all right.

 

That's all I got though. The rest are awkward. Crystal Maiden, Lina, Drow Ranger, Mirana, Templar Assassin, Luna.

 

*They do suffer from breasty-breastplate syndrome, but at least not to the degree that most typical fantasy garbage does.

 

I'd argue that Valve is actually pretty good in this regard. Where they fail (though in part due to "pulling from Dota 1" syndrome) is that there are waaaaaaaay fewer females than males.

[Professor Video Games]

  On 3/16/2014 at 11:39 PM, Bjorn said:

Ha!  Great stuff.  

 

If Male Superhero Costumes were Designed Like Female Superhero Costumes!

 

tumblr_lzkzwm1B7g1rn50t5o1_250.jpg

 

I love this.

[BusbyBerkeley]

I kind of want to buy that dumb "Gamer Feminist Illuminati" t-shirt that I saw people posting on twitter, but I don't do graphic tees anymore. What a dilemma.

[mikemariano]

This is a very good speech about classical methods of shutting women out of public conversation—for thousands of years!

 

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n06/mary-beard/the-public-voice-of-women

[Ben X]

So, moving on with that thread of discussion in the MGS thread:

 

Firstly, can someone please summarise why it sucks that the (villain?) in MGS and the enemies in Arkham City use misogynistic language? I'm pretty sure I agree that it does, but I can't coalesce my thoughts on it.

 

Secondly, re. Thrik talking about using terms like "bitch" or "cunt" in a generically perjorative but not misogynistic way, I used to do this, but after someone (I think on here) pointed out that even though I might not be using them in that way, the terms do contribute to or signify an accepted misogynist mindset in society (that other person phrased it better!). So I now try to only use gender-neutral terms like "arsehole".

[Roderick]

I haven't been part of the conversation on MSG, but I would gather that villains in literature or pop culture have always had quite as much appeal as the heroes. Villains are memorable, stylish, daring even at their most wicked. I'd say it's obvious why it would be a bad thing if they use misogynistic language. It'd be different if they were repellant things whose only function was to sweep the audience in an uproar of booing and hissing. As it is, villains are rolemodels too.

[TychoCelchuuu]

  On 3/28/2014 at 9:35 AM, Ben X said:

Firstly, can someone please summarise why it sucks that the (villain?) in MGS and the enemies in Arkham City use misogynistic language? I'm pretty sure I agree that it does, but I can't coalesce my thoughts on it.

Play through the game again and keep track of how many times people call Batman a bastard or a dick or an asshole or even swear at him at all, and spend some time thinking about what that disparity means. Also pay attention to how often Catwoman gets insulted with any non-gendered insults like asshole or dipshit. Then check out these articles:

http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/goddammit-video-games-the-first-few-hours-of-arkham-city-is-lots-of-fun-but-super-duper-sexist/

http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/hulk-vs-arkham-city-round-2-bitches-be-trippin/

[Bjorn]

  On 3/28/2014 at 2:08 PM, TychoCelchuuu said:

Play through the game again and keep track of how many times people call Batman a bastard or a dick or an asshole or even swear at him at all, and spend some time thinking about what that disparity means. Also pay attention to how often Catwoman gets insulted with any non-gendered insults like asshole or dipshit. Then check out these articles:

http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/goddammit-video-games-the-first-few-hours-of-arkham-city-is-lots-of-fun-but-super-duper-sexist/

http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/hulk-vs-arkham-city-round-2-bitches-be-trippin/

 

I don't know which way it goes, but I would be curious to see the count on how many times Batman gets referred by his name, or something like Bats or the Bat vs how many times Catwoman's name actually gets used.  I bet there is a disparity there.

[Ben X]

  On 3/28/2014 at 2:08 PM, TychoCelchuuu said:

Play through the game again and keep track of how many times people call Batman a bastard or a dick or an asshole or even swear at him at all, and spend some time thinking about what that disparity means. Also pay attention to how often Catwoman gets insulted with any non-gendered insults like asshole or dipshit. Then check out these articles:

http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/goddammit-video-games-the-first-few-hours-of-arkham-city-is-lots-of-fun-but-super-duper-sexist/

http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/hulk-vs-arkham-city-round-2-bitches-be-trippin/

 

I haven't played the game at all yet! I was hoping to hear someone sum up their opinion of it rather than be directed to making my own, and I like Film Crit Hulk, so I'll look at those articles, thanks.

[SecretAsianMan]

Arkham City is the next game on my list I'm going to play once I finish Bioshock Infinite.  I'll keep an eye (ear?) out for these things.

[Ben X]

Remember to consequently think about what the disparity means!

[TychoCelchuuu]

I said play it again. You can't do it the first time through! That would be cheating!

[Ben X]

Ohhh yeah.

 

Remember to consequently play it through again and consequently think about what the disparity means!

[SecretAsianMan]

Got it.  I will purposefully ignore the disparity and childishly laugh when I hear the word 'bitch' until my second playthough.

[Thrik]

Apparently the official X-Men page removed it, but this shouldn't have happened — especially when it's tied to a franchise with main themes that are consistently about prejudice, intolerance, etc. Hope someone got fired over that.

 

 

I scrolled down to check out a few comments, then quickly realised this was a mistake when one of the first I saw in response to a complaint about the advert's sexist nature was:

 

  Quote

Does it make your vagina itchy? 

 

Immediate impulse to lay into the guy resisted, now moving on.

[Bjorn]

That's just gross. 

[chummer]

  On 3/30/2014 at 1:33 PM, Thrik said:

Apparently the official X-Men page removed it, but this shouldn't have happened — especially when it's tied to a franchise with main themes that are consistently about prejudice, intolerance, etc. 

Carl's Jr. continues to an exemplar of shitty, sexist commercials.

[tegan]

That is a shitty-ass commercial on multiple levels.

 

One thing I really hate is that there's this weird food advertising dichotomy: women are supposed to starve themselves thin and men are supposed to give themselves a heart attack before they reach thirty.

[Justin Leego]

That burger bounces just like finely braized rubber. Delicious.

[miffy495]

  On 3/30/2014 at 8:58 PM, tegan said:

That is a shitty-ass commercial on multiple levels.

 

One thing I really hate is that there's this weird food advertising dichotomy: women are supposed to starve themselves thin and men are supposed to give themselves a heart attack before they reach thirty.

The fast food industry is secretly run by women trying to rid the world of men by giving us all heart attacks! Conspiracy revealed!

[SecretAsianMan]

I've started Arkham City.  I'm only a few hours in, but I haven't noticed a ton of especially misogynistic language.  I've heard "bitch" a few times but not a lot really.  I'm sort of taking it in a comic book sense, which I guess isn't really that much better if it's an acceptable practice there.  But these are villains and criminals.  They're kind of supposed to be assholes.  I will admit that they do seem to be much more willing to throw those kinds of insults toward Catwoman than Batman, although I think Batman scares them a lot more so they're going to take him more seriously whereas Catwoman is always sort of playful.  Maybe it'll be more obvious as I get further in.

[Nachimir]

  On 3/28/2014 at 9:35 AM, Ben X said:

can someone please summarise why it sucks that the (villain?) in MGS and the enemies in Arkham City use misogynistic language? I'm pretty sure I agree that it does, but I can't coalesce my thoughts on it.

 

First thought: Particularly with minion NPCs casually barking it, the sexism and misogyny make the entire game environment toxic, in a continuous way from start to finish (It's easy for many of us to not really notice though because we're white guys). Without contextualisation, say, against other groups of NPCs that aren't sexists or misogynists, there's no shock or narrative value to it.

 

The nature of barks mean it's widespread and peppered throughout the game. That makes it it more world building than storytelling, and in that sense it says nothing and serves no purpose, other than to portray a misogynist world as backdrop for a narrative that also says nothing on the subject. Perhaps it perpetuates the sexism and misogyny it portrays, but even if not, it certainly isn't adding or doing anything constructive with regard to them.

[tegan]

Protip: "asshole" is the gold standard of profanity. It's not racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist, or even classist. It's mild enough to use in public, yet filthy enough to get a reaction. It's fun to say and it makes a good punchline. So if you're making a game or a comic or a movie or whatever and you have a character calling someone a bitch, go with asshole instead.

[Bjorn]

  On 3/31/2014 at 2:47 PM, tegan said:

Protip: "asshole" is the gold standard of profanity. It's not racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist, or even classist. It's mild enough to use in public, yet filthy enough to get a reaction. It's fun to say and it makes a good punchline. So if you're making a game or a comic or a movie or whatever and you have a character calling someone a bitch, go with asshole instead.

 

That's the best collection of comics, thanks!