Feminism

[Twig]

  On 9/17/2014 at 6:15 AM, Gormongous said:

I remember you talking about this friend a year or so ago. I thought you said he was getting better at not just spouting out ignorant shit...? Not that the current cultural climate doesn't bring out the loudmouth in us all, for better or for worse.

I did think that! Or maybe hoped? I don't know. Now that I'm a bit calmer and have had a good night's sleep, I realize that he never actually asserted that sexism doesn't exist in video games. But he is saying it's not as bad as people think. If a woman just works hard, they'll be able to make any game they want! Anita's definitely biased and cherry-picking! Erghhh basically a lot of the arguments the quote-unquote saner segment of the gaters are making.

Bleh.

[Dewar]

  On 9/17/2014 at 1:52 PM, Denial said:

That's where it's from - a megillah being a scroll, literally, more specifically one of the Megillot, the five books of the Ketuvim, and most commonly the Book of Esther, because it gets read out at Purim. So, ganze Megillah in Yiddish - the whole Megillah - is used to mean a lengthy, complete account. 

(This has little to do with feminism. Although I guess Esther is a strong female protagonist...)

 

Oh, I thought we were talking about the Gorilla and I was thoroughly confused.

[Henroid]

  On 9/17/2014 at 10:05 AM, Denial said:

The fact that the far right is making a concerted pitch for gamers is one of the most interesting/horrible things about this whole megillah. And I guess Wikileaks is looking to harness the same... energy?

 

It does highlight something interesting, which is that the roiling discontent of the gamergaters is often categorized as "conservative", but it doesn't necessarily line up with the groups currently courting it. If this whole thing has an upside, it may be that at some point Breitbart.com is going to have to try to work out what its editorial position is on erotic My Little Pony fanart.

I had no idea she was involved in politics in this manner, but again, my observation that right-wing politics in America is picking up on this is bad news. It's bad because in late November when GG gets dropped by all these people who were 'supporting' them (fishing for voters) there's going to be this weird, final cry.

[Mangela Lansbury]

  On 9/17/2014 at 10:32 AM, ANTVGM64 said:

This is a round about way of saying that if you’re looking for something that’s subjective in nature like sexist or racist or ageist content, you’re going to find it. Always.

 

I don't have the time to address the rest of that right now -- and the people who have already replied have said things better than I could -- but this is so tone deaf it hurts. Yes, if you let yourself see it, you're going to find sexist and racist content everywhere. That's because sexism and racism are everywhere. Yes, you are guilty of it. Yes, I am guilty of it. That doesn't necessarily mean we're bad, it just means we didn't know better. I mean, I'm gay and I catch myself doing/saying homophobic things sometimes. That's how deeply ingrained some of these prejudices are. You can find them everywhere because they are everywhere.

[syntheticgerbil]

  On 9/17/2014 at 11:42 AM, JonCole said:

 

I mean... c'mon.

Oh, so that's Quiet's BRILLIANT reasoning for wearing a bikini all the time, especially in the sand swept desert where everyone else has a coat on. The extreme Kojima fans told everyone to wait that all good reasons would be revealed, yet it was just like the more levelheaded fans suspected: bad costume design for a cheap sex sells factor. It has nothing to do with her cloaking ability. I remember when we used to all be able to expect more of Kojima.

[itsamoose]

I couldn't even finish that sommers video.  I feel like I should at least hear her out, but I just can't contain my contempt for everything she represents.  She's just another one of those "conservatives" who claim to be coming from an intellectual perspective but constantly rely on some perverse perception of common sense or traditional "wisdom" to advance their argument.  I want to write her a letter describing why I feel this way, but to be honest in my experience arguing with people like this they are only interested in twisting the discussion into some pre-defined end state and would probably just be a waste of my time.

[Twig]

My conservative friend who liked her video tells me she's libertarian registered as democrat which

 

okay

[itsamoose]

  On 9/17/2014 at 10:56 PM, Twig said:

My conservative friend who liked her video tells me she's libertarian registered as democrat which

 

okay

 

Even if that is the case, political party registration really means very little.  Whenever there is a Democratic primary in my area I go to the polling place, register as a Democrat and vote, and when there is a Republican primary I go to (usually the same) polling place, register as a Republican and vote.

[Twig]

Right, that was my point that I didn't explicitly state! (I agree.)

[sclpls]

Ok, you guys are still talking about Sommers. Like, how is this woman saying anything different from some typical Ann Coulter nonsense?

[itsamoose]

I suppose it isn't significantly different, but it is a bit more frustrating.  The people that video is targeting are young, passionate, easy to manipulate and frightened of losing something they hold dear.  This is a video from a member of a prominent lobbyist group clearly looking to gin up support for their way of thinking, but I very much doubt the people that buy into this kind of thinking can see that.  All you really have to do is present yourself as an authority and people will start to listen to you (where as Coulter presents her work as opinion) so any hope of this whole discussion taking a positive turn within that group is that much farther away.

[neonrev]

So I've been in depressingly serious meetings about paying her to speak* at an academic institution on the topic of gender relations from a humanist standpoint (these were some surreal fucking meetings, let me tell you.) and I feel well versed in her life and works to say that anymore words devoted to how she's wrong only serve to prop up the pathetic corpse of an academic career. She is the literal embodiment of anger click baiting. I feel quite strongly that members of her ridiculous band of supporters only draw strength from criticism. It fuels their "She's the lone bastion of right-thinking in feminism because everyone else disagrees with her." mentality.


*We didn't. Sadly it came down to more "She requests ludicrous speaking fees." and less "She's a obvious shill." Later we got 6 actual (including 2 rather notable) scientists and their flights, cars and hotels for less than she was asking, to give you an idea.

[sclpls]

Yeah it's kind if like when they manage to find that one guy from the physics department that thinks these climate scientists don't know what they're talking about.

[SecretAsianMan]

So this is a thing

 

http://www.polygon.com/2014/9/18/6392719/tgs-breast-demo-photos

[jccalhoun]

I wonder how many of the people using #notyourshield realize how accurate that tag really is because they may not be "SJW" shields but they are gamergate shields...

[Henroid]

#notyourshield,theirshield

[SecretAsianMan]

A fairly in depth opinion piece by Colin Campbell about why he thinks Sommers is wrong

[BobbyBesar]

I don't really understand why people are taking Sommers seriously. Is it just because she's an external source? She just re-states the same basic talking points that you see everywhere. Her argument, where it isn't irrelevant, boils down to circular logic: games are for boys because games are for boys. It's basically mirroring the exact same content as the Maddox video she pulls a clip from.

 

Also, LOL at "I've been looking at the gamer culture for a couple weeks". Clearly she's an expert.

[JonCole]

I find the whole "games are made for and marketed to men because that's who plays them and it makes business sense to do so" thing so tiring. I don't think anyone disagrees that making products that suit a demographic is good business sense, but the problem is 1) you can make games that appeal to men that can also appeal to women and don't devalue them 2) it's a matter of proportion - just because men are a majority doesn't mean they therefore round up to 100% and everything should be targeted to only them.

[SecretAsianMan]

  On 9/19/2014 at 6:47 PM, JonCole said:

I find the whole "games are made for and marketed to men because that's who plays them and it makes business sense to do so" thing so tiring. I don't think anyone disagrees that making products that suit a demographic is good business sense, but the problem is 1) you can make games that appeal to men that can also appeal to women and don't devalue them 2) it's a matter of proportion - just because men are a majority doesn't mean they therefore round up to 100% and everything should be targeted to only them.

 

If you really think about it, it doesn't even make good business sense.  Let's assume men buy stuff aimed at men and women buy stuff aimed at women (a bad assumption I know but stick with me).  That would mean there's a large, untapped market of women out there.  Wouldn't you WANT to make things aimed at that audience?  I mean, can you seriously justify ignoring such a huge potential market share?  And that doesn't even take into account the increasing amounts of evidence that women are starting to or already have overtaken men in a lot of traditionally male dominated markets.

[BobbyBesar]

"I think we've discovered an interesting strategy."

 

Most large corporations are incredibly risk averse, something gamers are familiar with in regards to content, but it applies to market identification as well. The increasing costs of AAA game development certainly aren't helping with that mentality either.

[Justin Leego]

  On 9/19/2014 at 6:40 PM, CLWheeljack said:

Also, LOL at "I've been looking at the gamer culture for a couple weeks". Clearly she's an expert.

 

If you screw someone over in gaming, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance, etc. etc.

[James]

  On 9/19/2014 at 6:40 PM, CLWheeljack said:

Also, LOL at "I've been looking at the gamer culture for a couple weeks". Clearly she's an expert.

Compare with the scrutiny Anita Sarkeesian's gamer cred is subjected to.

[Stuart]

Good. 

 

[Twig]

Wow that's beautiful.