A Song Of Ice And Fire

[osmosisch]

  On 9/4/2014 at 10:45 PM, Undeadpool said:

I know this is a LATE response, but I'm new here:

 

I've heard nothing but good things about his Wild Card novels (superhero world where people get random powers corresponding to cards in a deck) and the Hedge Knight series is a Song of Ice and Fire prequel.

His short stories and novellas are almost all excellent, arguably better than his long-form fiction because they don't get so top-heavy. This collection is great.

[Ben X]

Oh cool, thanks!

[Undeadpool]

  On 9/5/2014 at 9:27 AM, osmosisch said:

His short stories and novellas are almost all excellent, arguably better than his long-form fiction because they don't get so top-heavy. This collection is great.

 

...based on the author's own admissions of his predilections...I can't imagine why is novels are so........TOP-heavy.......... <teehee>

 

Seriously, though, I thought his food descriptions were a tad overwritten and THEN I bought "A Feast of Ice and Fire," the cook book based on the dishes in the novels. Holy. Crap. I've never eaten so well with relatively LITTLE effort (though a LARGE initial cash infusion to get all the proper spices).

 

Also: I'll TOTALLY check out that collection. I just finished book 5, after marathoning all of them, so I'm looking for some palette cleansing. Currently reading Sirens of Titan, but I want to go back to Martin.

[Ben X]

What are people's plans for the point where the show starts to overtake the novels? Apparently the next season may start to do that already.

 

I think I'm going to have to stop watching the show, because although I enjoy it, it really is the lite version of the novels and I don't think I'll get half as much enjoyment out of them if I know every single major plot beat. The problem is, it'll be incredibly difficult to avoid spoilers for the show and therefore novels anyway, so at least watching the show immediately would mean that I get to enjoy the story if not in my ideal way...

[JonCole]

I dunno, I enjoy the show more than the books so I imagine I'll keep watching it. Plus, the path of the show seems to be veering off enough that I won't feel like I'm being explicitly spoiled on story content by watching it ahead of any content that theoretically hasn't been covered in the books yet. I know that GRRM is working with the showrunners to some extent, but I don't feel like if he tells the showrunners the broad strokes that whatever they think up to be the plot of the show has much bearing at all on what GRRM writes.

[Undeadpool]

The show's diverted enough and in such major ways that I'll keep on keeping on. I'm honestly not sure WHAT they could reveal at this point that be legitimately "shocking," besides major character deaths.

 

The show's not perfect, but it's entertaining as hell and a DAMN good adaptation (something I think more people need to become aware of).

[Udvarnoky]

GRRM's publisher indicates that Winds of Winter will not be published in 2015.

 

You look surprised...

 

"I'm sorry, I must've put it on too high."

[Ben X]

Noooooo!

[Undeadpool]

Oh, don't be sad.

 

In the end it's all for the Watch. For the Watch. For the Watch...

[Ben X]

Sigh, I guess I'll resign myself to finding the story out from the show rather than the books, which is a shame.

 

I've slowed down on my re-read now, I'm about halfway through the third book. What I'd really like once I've read all the books is a site or set of Kindle notes or something that basically does a commentary through the whole thing, pointing out all the foreshadowing and hidden details, because I'm sure I'm missing so much. I just looked up THIRD BOOK SPOILERS Duskendale to see if I was missing stuff about why Glover and Tallhart make such a strategic error as to march on it (I guess the implication is that Bolton is sabotaging Robb for Tywin by ordering them to?), and happened to notice that there was a whole plot by Glover and Vargo Hoat to take over Harrenhal, and Arya wasted her last death from Jaqen by facilitating something that was going to happen anyway. This somehow went completely over my head.

[Ben X]

Phew, just finished the third book. I'm surprised at how most of the tv series' plot strands haven't got any further than this. I don't see that there'll be much necessity for them to get into Book 6 stuff before it's published, assuming that happens before season 5 arrives (and even then they might be safe considering how big the books get). The only issue is SUPER-MILD SPOILERS strands like Bran and Sansa that don't go much further in books 4 and 5 but the show will want to progress somehow (unless they just leave them alone for a season or two, but that doesn't seem ideal, especially considering the aging of the young actors).

[Udvarnoky]

  On 3/11/2015 at 10:42 AM, Ben X said:

 I don't see that there'll be much necessity for them to get into Book 6 stuff before it's published, assuming that happens before season 5 arrives

 

It's necessary because the showrunners have repeatedly stated that they want the show to consist of seven seasons.  Also, just as Book 3 is incredibly dense, Books 4 and 5 are comparatively meandering.  I think even combining those books together (which many do, for chronological purposes) leaves you with something with less narrative propulsion than Book 3 by itself.

 

My expectation is that Season 5 will roughly consist of a combination of Book 4 and 5 with a lot of fat disposed of, and dip a bit into unpublished territory.  This leaves two seasons to cover the two unpublished books.  That's all very roughly speaking, of course, because we're at a point now where I think the show's really going to go off-script, even if it's going to arrive at the same major signposts that the literature will.

[Ben X]

  On 4/1/2015 at 3:44 PM, Udvarnoky said:

It's necessary because the showrunners have repeatedly stated that they want the show to consist of seven seasons.

 

As far as I can tell, they were saying 7 or 8 seasons up until the day I posted that, when they seem to have given an interview narrowing it down to 7. Seven books maps to seven seasons anyway: perhaps the next 2 books will be meandering too and they'll be trying to hold back and invent a load of new story for that reason. We can't say for sure.

 

I think I made a typo there about assuming that book 6 will arrive before season 5, though. Either that or I was being wildly optimistic!

[Ben X]

  On 9/4/2014 at 10:45 PM, Undeadpool said:

I know this is a LATE response, but I'm new here:

 

I've heard nothing but good things about his Wild Card novels (superhero world where people get random powers corresponding to cards in a deck) and the Hedge Knight series is a Song of Ice and Fire prequel.

 

I've read the first three Wild Card novels (which are shared world short story anthologies mainly, written by GRRM and his mates) and they're fantastic. The recently released compilation of the first three Hedge Knight stories was great as well.

 

I think I've decided to stop watching the GoT show, as season 5 felt like a big drop in quality and I'd rather risk a few spoilers while waiting for the novels.

[Sig]

I haven't been watching the show since season 4. The Sansa plot had caught up to the end of book five so I decided to wait for the next book. I thought it would be fine and I managed to stay spoiler free through Season 5. But man, there are spoilers about everything in season 6 in every headline on every medium. It's ridiculous.

 

Is it futile to try to wait for Martin on this? Should I just start watching the show again?

[tberton]

I don't watch the show, but from my understanding, the plot has diverged so much from the books that it's not necessarily going to spoil you.

[Ben X]

I've stopped watching the show, and I haven't been spoiled yet but it's bound to happen and some of that is bound to overlap with the books. However, there's already a fair amount of difference even in season 5 and GRRM recently said that he's writing major twists which involve characters who have already died in the series and decided not to worry about that.

[Mawd]

They feel like two alternative universes at this point. The show has tried to write their own endings for some fan theories but by doing so they'll probably end up subverted in the books.

[Smart Jason]

I completely disagree with everyone above. I'm someone who wasn't going to watch the show this season because I thought the quality had tanked and, more importantly, I didn't want it to spoil the books. I was weakened by all the rhetoric about how the show is on its own course, however (plus, I'm weak-willed and otherwise not busy Sunday nights), and decided to watch this season.

 

It's now only halfway over and it has indisputably reached fundamental lore truths and plot points that the books, while they'll contain greater details and likely be under different circumstances, will have to include, as well as confirming fan theories which I consider as much of a spoiler.

 

Think of it this way: If the show got there first, would you have considered the Red Wedding unspoiled in A Storm of Swords just because in the books it was raining, they talked about bread, salt, and guest right, there was no Talisa, and Catelyn took Jinglebell hostage? Would that really have made the difference? Yes, the show's Red Wedding was according to the books' plan, but I think people are assuming way too much ignorance of the larger questions on the showrunners' part when they say that the show is devising new answers on its own.

 

Here are things that happened just in the first half of this season that I would say are guaranteed to occur in the book:

  Reveal hidden contents

Jon Snow resurrected. Yes, it's obvious, but still technically just a fan theory when speaking of the books.

Melisandre revealed to use a glamour and what she actually looks like.

Roose Bolton's death, likely to remain at Ramsay's hands.

Daenerys takes control of the Dothraki.

The Others were a creation of the Children of the Forest. This is so fucking major and absolutely not a show-only invention, as it was correctly theorized (based on the texts) just weeks previous by Westeros.org.

The origins of Hodor's name and impairment. I would've bought this as an invention of the show as well, but it was confirmed the Hodor etymology came from George. Again: there's no reason to doubt this information is easily accessible to them to continue seeding into the show.

 

So, yeah, these are all things I would've much rather experienced first in the novels. If you can take or leave the show and care about not having the plot revealed, you should absolutely stay clear of it.

[Ben X]

Thanks Jason, that makes me feel better about my decision! Yeah, when I was talking about diverging, I only meant on some points - I fully expect the show to hit a lot of stuff from the books closely, which is why I've decided to stop watching.

[AllieTsundere]

So is it worth starting these books now? Or should I just wait until the last two books are released?

 

From what I understand, the show has already surpassed the books. So I'm no longer worried about being spoiled over anything.

 

I guess I should also ask, are they good? I hear mixed things.

[osmosisch]

Start now, GRRM will likely die of a stroke before they're done anyway and they're fun books. Also be warned the quality decreases by quite a bit as the series progresses, with less and less happening.

[Treasure Goblin]

I thoroughly enjoyed books 1-3, with 4 being pretty boring from memory and 5 being a bit better but I think at that point I had lost a lot of my investment in the series. I think they are good books in that they are pretty accessible for a fantasy series.  

[Ben X]

  On 2/1/2015 at 10:18 AM, Ben X said:

Sigh, I guess I'll resign myself to finding the story out from the show rather than the books, which is a shame.

 

I've slowed down on my re-read now, I'm about halfway through the third book. What I'd really like once I've read all the books is a site or set of Kindle notes or something that basically does a commentary through the whole thing, pointing out all the foreshadowing and hidden details, because I'm sure I'm missing so much.

 

Does anyone (probably @Thyroid) have any recommendations for something like this?

 

After weeks at work of desperately trying to avoid spoilers, I've given in and caught up on the show (I stopped at season 5 previously). It's a shame, but there's no way I'll go another ten years, or however long it takes GRRM to get WoW and DoS out, without accidentally learning every plot beat and moment anyway. Once it ends, I'm going to do a re-read, including the Hedge Knight stories, and then my first read of the released WoW excerpts and Fire And Blood. 

[Ben X]

Still regretting that decision ^^ even though Winds Of Winter still hasn't come out (he's still writing it, not long now!).

 

Anyway, found this great ASOIAF theory channel, am enjoying the Littlefinger videos at the moment: https://www.youtube.com/@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin/videos