Vegas Posted November 2, 2012 Anybody wanna talk about how Reveal hidden contents the ending does or does not tie into the discussion on the ruination cast about twist endings in games pointing to the fact that they're games and not saying anything but that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vegas Posted November 2, 2012 I just finished the game so it's worth the double post. first of all if you're tipsy or even drunk going through this isn't so bad. Secondly seeing the names of Rami, Brandon, and Phil in the game as masks warms my heart. Thirdly I love that there is finally a game that is so STRONG in its aesthetic and design choices it REPULSES people. As a fan of GRINDCORE I appreciate this deeply. I love art that offends people at surface value. When I first encountered this game at fantastic arcade I loved it. Later on I gave cactus a great big hug for making this game, when I found him. I may have done the same for norrland. (what, you haven't played norrland? you dummy) There NEEDS to be a space for games that are SO offensive that people can't handle it. Just like there's an undergroujnd scene in music where people like me worship , there can be a space in games for shit that seems so vile it's almost - almost- unconsumable for mass audiences.This game ruuuuuuuuuulllllleeeeeed. VIDEO GAAAAAAAAMMMMEEEEEESSSSSSs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted November 2, 2012 The soundtrack for listening on the internet, if it hasn't already been linked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sammorris12 Posted November 3, 2012 Just finished it, wow, what a game. I mean, I don't remember having strong feelings of relief for completing the simplest of tasks in a video game before. Then the scene at the end... Reveal hidden contents When you're talking to guys in the green hats, who essentially question why you brutally murdered all those guys. Which kind of makes the whole game a commentary on violence in video games. At least that's how I read it, or maybe I'm just trying to justify enjoying this "murder simulator" as much as I did. I haven't seen many people talking about this, did anyone else come to that conclusion? Either way, this game looks and sounds unlike anything I've ever played before and tells it's story in a very interesting way. Definitely one of my favourite games of the year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brannigan Posted November 3, 2012 On 11/2/2012 at 11:31 PM, Twig said: The soundtrack for listening on the internet, if it hasn't already been linked. http://soundcloud.co...-miami-official Delicious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Posted November 4, 2012 On 11/2/2012 at 11:31 PM, Twig said: The soundtrack for listening on the internet, if it hasn't already been linked. http://soundcloud.co...-miami-official Oh, best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Problem Machine Posted November 4, 2012 Oh god I think this brain hurt my game. I... I'll probably be alright. Someday. Anyway. Just got the hidden ending. Reveal hidden contents I've had the experience a couple of times of going through a story which concludes in an underwhelming ending which doesn't follow through on the premise. I know I've had that happen before, I can't remember where. And I think complaints about the hidden ending are valid... if you take it at face value. I don't. And maybe that's wishful thinking. Maybe that's just me imposing ideas which fit better with what my perception of the game is. Maybe it doesn't matter. So. The hidden ending is contrived, tells you nothing about what's been happening, and seems overall unnecessary. To me, this is a statement about shitty endings. To others it might just be a shitty ending. But why would a game so measured in its delivery throughout fail at the last, the final step which wasn't even necessary to the game? Distopian future, secret society... Deus Ex Suckina to the max. And I can't believe that was mere incompetence. The first ending is the 'real' ending. No magically guessing a password, nothing but questions and questions. Because the questions are the interesting part, aren't they? Posed a question strange enough and compelling enough, what answer could possibly live up to it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nachimir Posted November 4, 2012 I read it all like this: Reveal hidden contents The first player character is not entirely comfortable with killing, as evidenced by him kneeling and throwing up at the end of the first mission. As he starts to hallucinate mutilated corpses talking to him, I see it as him suffering a psychotic break. Any of the sections from then onward could be the last psychotic delusions, or dreams, of either player character as they die. All story elements from then on are unreliable, and at that point I'd given up on the game having any kind of narrative reality. The lack of cohesive story or unambiguous answers simply doesn't bother me. The game was going to some interesting places and functioning as a comment on violence, both in games and out. Hotline Miami does an incredible job of putting a lot uncomfortable violence next to a big wad of 80s glamour, without expressly associating the two or glorifying the violence. The player characters are never shown profiting from it, just perpetrating. The high score screens and the soothing, major-keyed synth music accompanying give just enough association and positive feedback to be disconcerting, but they're directed at the player rather than tied to the character in any way. They're also the thing that is consistent and reliable for the entire game. Was anyone else horrified to get the cricket mask, try out the finishing move with the weapon it grants, and realise what enormous scores it could grant? I enjoy the game as it's so well designed, and I have the urge to go back and get A+ ratings on all levels, but even in cartoony 2D, the violence is uncomfortable and makes me question my attitudes to it. Rami, from Vlambeer, has put an interesting post up, positing that the final two people you meet are the developers. I haven't checked to see if the character faces match the Dennaton splash, but it makes quite a bit of sense. If anyone is looking for a coherent story, an objective reading, or a sense of closure, I think they're probably missing the point. If you end up looking to the developers for answers, I suspect all they have is questions, and as PM says above: pretty interesting ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Problem Machine Posted November 5, 2012 Okay I may have been overreacting slightly last night. Four hours of Hotline Miami... does funny things to a man's head. Anyway, upon further reflection: Reveal hidden contents I think the hidden ending is the real ending, but I still think it's intentionally kind of lame just to drive home the point that what's interesting here isn't the literal events that are happening but how the characters are experiencing them. Finding out what's actually happening would probably never be anything but an anti-climax. However, the more I think about the events of the game, the more they fall into place. The important point, I think, is to imagine the game starts when Jacket gets shot by Richter. Everything from the intro to Trauma takes place in Jacket's comatose mind as he remembers the missions he'd been sent on. The masks he's found along the way are turned into personalities in his dream to guide him through it. However, as the dream continues it starts getting more and more disjointed until he finally wakes up, at which point the hallucinations go away. This explains the content of the hallucinations, where he keeps seeing Richter over and over again (though how does he know what he looks like without the mask?) Regarding the janitors being the devs, I think that that was something that they wanted to imply as a possible meta-plot with the first ending, which is part of why the second ending seemed frustrating at first. But maybe playing with those expectations in the first place was the point? Maybe we wanted it to all be a dream? This is seriously one of my favorite games ever, and it makes me absurdly jealous of the degree of game design skill that went into it. I don't know if I have ever played another game that kept such fine control over its tone or that told such an intense story so minimalistically. Reveal hidden contents Let me tell you when it really started to get to me, like actually make me uncomfortable: When you play as Helmet, and for the first time you have the option of NOT killing someone. All of a sudden, all of those violent murder sprees crash down to earth and start to mean something. This is why this game fucking blows my mind.I may have discussed before how controlling what the player can do could be used to express character, but I have never before seen it done so well. Look: When you play as Jacket, there is never any option not to kill someone. Jacket is out for blood, the massacre is its own reward for him, and he will use any means at his disposal to achieve it. Conversely, Biker is in it for the action, for the thrill ride: He uses a fucking meat cleaver and a few knives and won't pick up weaponry even if it's available. However, he has no problem with letting non-combatants live, because they're simply uninteresting to him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brannigan Posted November 5, 2012 The Phil mask is clearly the best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenetic Pony Posted November 7, 2012 This is a fascinating game I'm just not very good at. The long stages just kill me. I end up failing once about every other time I try to enter a room. But the problem is it's hard to bring myself to repeat each room the same, so I'll end up playing a stage upwards of 10 times in a row if it's got a lot of rooms, and then I just get sort of frustrated and realize it's a really weird bloody game that I don't have a terribly great motivation to end each stage for. So I'm playing it maybe ten minutes a day max. Edit- Hard in the way that it's kind of boring to repeat the same way after the fifth time through. It gets boring quickly, just repeating the same timings and actions for Nth time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sammorris12 Posted November 7, 2012 On 11/7/2012 at 2:27 AM, Frenetic Pony said: This is a fascinating game I'm just not very good at. The long stages just kill me. I end up failing once about every other time I try to enter a room. But the problem is it's hard to bring myself to repeat each room the same, so I'll end up playing a stage upwards of 10 times in a row if it's got a lot of rooms, and then I just get sort of frustrated and realize it's a really weird bloody game that I don't have a terribly great motivation to end each stage for. So I'm playing it maybe ten minutes a day max. If you know anyone who can beat a stage of Hotline Miami in less than 10 attempts, I'd love to meet him. The latter half of the game, I probably approached 30, 40, 50 restarts per game. I think they do a good job of making respawning as quick as possible and not making a big deal of it. I found it fairly easy once I had a good strategy for a room, to implement that strategy time and time again. Sometimes the game does throw a curve ball, but as long as you can stay patient before entering rooms, you should find some success. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nachimir Posted November 7, 2012 Likewise, I found most tactics very repeatable, and the game would do just enough to require adaptation. If a level started taking too many attempts, I'd let off steam by doing stupid, manic suicide runs for a little while. Instant door kills from the Donkey mask helped a lot in the mid-game, though by the end I realised that even when you're unarmed, enemies with guns are only a problem if there are more than two or you can't close the distance quickly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Professor Video Games Posted November 8, 2012 The way the gameplay, art, and music all work together in this game is really effective...especially at keeping me from being able to fall asleep if I play right before I go to bed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurboPubx-16 Posted November 12, 2012 Anyone else feeling more like themselves after taking a break from Hotline Miami? This game took control of a certain part of my brain for about half a week, and boy was it strange. I found myself struggling with the fact that I was interacting with this thing that I would not dare speak of in real life. This game was a real trip! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Problem Machine Posted November 12, 2012 It gets in your brain. It gets in your brain. It gets in your brain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Ernst Posted November 12, 2012 This game is full of great little touches. It's genius how the developers create this dynamic where after attempt after attempt at senseless, indiscriminate violence, you have to walk through your carnage in near-silence at the end of a mission. It creates this strange moment of reflection, and you actually understand the weight of your carnage. Also, the way the plot refuses to directly explain what is happening is so refreshing. In so many games, including games I quite like, there is a story/lore dump cinematic in the beginning, so the player immediately understands their motivations and their character's standing within a given universe. However, this method of story telling is, to me, inelegant and basic as raw exposition is at best dry and at worst overwhelming. The magic of interpretation is lost in this story telling method. Hotline Miami dodges all of this, by scope and by the way it handles story. You are just as clueless as your protagonist is, and the universe is given significance because you understand it at the same time your character does, by witnessing events unfold through your character's eyes. You haven't been told who these people are, and they aren't going to directly tell you. I'm rambling a bit, but what I am saying is that I think good stories lend themselves to multiple interpretations (this shouldn't be a controversial statement), and its nice not to spoon-fed plot in a video game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nachimir Posted November 12, 2012 I agree, and my reading is that Hotline Miami is about the player, not the player character. The game didn't have an effect on me anywhere near as severe as on TurboPub, but listening to the soundtrack on my phone in a large, horrendously busy, and especially tacky department store a few days later was… unpleasant, and made me feel mean. It amplified my usual feelings of "fuck this place". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimmithy Posted November 12, 2012 This soundtrack has firmly placed itself in the spot of "cruising around the city late at night." I keep imagining those scenes in noir movies where people are driving in cars and the street lights pass over their faces in hard, cutting segments of very bright light and almost total blackness. I had one of those moments where "Paris" was playing in the back of my head when I fell asleep one night, only to have it pick right back up the spot where it left off when I woke up in the morning. This music is permeating me. That being said, I do agreed that the game is very solid. It satisfies a very quick and surprisingly easy-going puzzler itch, and stays compelling with an engaging aesthetic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Problem Machine Posted November 12, 2012 Soo I wrote like 3000 words on why this game totally blew my fucking mind right out the back of my skull (aijiyentdotcom). Some of those words are funny! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brkl Posted November 26, 2012 Man, this game keeps crashing in the Assault mission. It's hard enough, but having to redo the levels is too much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nappi Posted November 27, 2012 http://www.shacknews...ned-full-sequel Can't wait. The soundtrack and the visuals caught my interest at first, but the polished gameplay and solid storytelling kept me hooked till the end. I was afraid that the game would became ridiculously hard by the end, but it was never that difficult. I was killed a lot, of course, but I never got frustrated and none of the floors took too many attempts to get right. The violence and gore was uncomfortable, but I still found the game less nauseous than an average episode of CSI or 24 or the like. The storytelling was top-notch even if the plot was ultimately a bit disappointing. The "lackluster" ending didn't really bother me, but I was hoping for a more convincing explanation on Reveal hidden contents how they actually managed to force the people to commit these deeds. (I may have missed something, though) Hydrogen by M|O|O|N bored through my skull Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TychoCelchuuu Posted November 27, 2012 Finished it just now. Great game. Reveal hidden contents The two janitors at the end are definitely the developers so that redeems the stupid secret ending a bit for me, and the hospital section was sheer brilliance, as are all the parts in between the missions (at the apartments and at the convenience stores and so on) but overall I share Chris Remo's "games that try to say something about violence by making you wonder why you are killing all these people are being lazy." I don't mind though because this game is mechanically so much fun that narratively I can deal with a well done narrative saddled with a stupid, empty lesson behind it because it has just enough ambiguity to keep it interesting despite that. And of course the soundtrack. And the aesthetics. You're right, Vegas: it takes courage to make a game that looks like this, a game that will certainly turn people off for looking like it does. But its vision is uncompromised and it's all the stronger for it. One of my favorite games this year. I found myself about halfway through the game switching from "try to plan stuff" mode into a "just be a fucking nutter" mode. I still ended up thinking tactically in some parts, especially when I could end up catching my breath, but just flipping the "go for it" switch in my brain added some real fluidity into how I approached situations. And then I was reading online and I saw someone say you can fling the pots of boiling water on stoves onto enemies to scald them. I wonder what else I'm missing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Ernst Posted November 27, 2012 Well, looks like I found a new purpose to keep living. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
youmeyou Posted November 27, 2012 That is fantastic. Charles Barkley has the best head. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
