Coraline Questions and Spoilers

[Zeusthecat]

I have seen Coraline way too many times because it is my daughter's favorite movie but there is one thing that always bothered me about it. My understanding is that spider Terri Hatcher created the alternate world and everything in it so she could lure kids in to feed on their souls or whatever. But when Dakota Fanning challenges her, both the other father and the other Wybie try to help her. I thought they were created by spider Terri Hatcher though? This is further evidenced by the fact that other Wybie blows his hand into dust as if to show he was just one of her creations.

So what the fuck? Is this just lazy writing or is there some hidden deeper meaning I am missing? Were they really created by her or are they just infused with the lost children's souls or something? I could google this I suppose but I'm more interested in what Thumbs have to say.

[Ucantalas]

Maybe, even though they were created by Spider Terri Hatcher, they were given free will, and developed some weird moral compass that made them not like what she was doing, so they tried to help? I dunno, its also been a long time since I've seen the movie.

[Zeusthecat]

Maybe, even though they were created by Spider Terri Hatcher, they were given free will, and developed some weird moral compass that made them not like what she was doing, so they tried to help? I dunno, its also been a long time since I've seen the movie.

 

I've mulled this over in my head quite a bit and I thought of that as a possibility too because that would basically mirror the concept of the Creation theory and how humans were given free will. But it just seems a little too smart and deep for this movie. But maybe not, I don't know. So many things about this movie seem like they could have incredibly deep meaning or just surface value weirdness.

[osmosisch]

It's based on a book by Neil Gaiman so 'too smart or deep' need not necessarily apply.

[tegan]

It's been a while since I read the book, but I remember Wybie being created wholecloth for the movie. The Other Father might have been given a larger role in it as well, but I can't remember.

 

My theory is that since they're at least semi-autonomous modified copies of their original selves, they probably have some degree of their originals' free will and moral compasses. They also have enough sense to know that the Other Mother is bad news, since they've experienced her firsthand.

 

 

Also, Zeus, has she seen Paranorman yet? It's the same animation team and it's saturated with the same mood and tone. Also, if she's old enough to read, she should totes check out the book.

[Ben X]

Oh yeah, Paranorman's on my list to watch. It didn't look great from the trailers, but it got good reviews. Apparently, it has the first

openly gay character

in a mainstream children's animated film, too, which is interesting.

[Zeusthecat]

Also, Zeus, has she seen Paranorman yet? It's the same animation team and it's saturated with the same mood and tone. Also, if she's old enough to read, she should totes check out the book.

 

I think she may have seen part of it on Netflix or something, I can't remember. That is definitely one that looked pretty cool though and seemed to have some mature themes from what I've read so I'll try to get her to watch it (again?) to see if she gets into it like she did with Coraline. She's 4 now so she is starting to pick up on some more complex things in movies and it's pretty cool.

 

 

It's based on a book by Neil Gaiman so 'too smart or deep' need not necessarily apply.

 

Sweet, I'm glad to hear that's the case because this movie has been drilled into my brain so many times at this point. I would be sad if I was searching for deeper meaning in something that had none and was just another silly or slightly clever kids movie which I am now convinced is not the case for this one. There are certain scenes I have seen a lot more than others because my daughter goes through phases where she just constantly has it on and I'll tune in and out as I'm doing my thing. Last night was one of the few times I actually sat there and watched through the whole last 1/3rd of the movie which seemed much more thought provoking than the first 2/3rds.

 

The other peculiar part for me was how spider Terri Hatcher was able to capture Dakota Fanning's parents (or if she actually did at all). The cat shows her the mom/dad doll that resembles her parents but how would that doll have been used to actually capture them? I thought STH used the doll to spy on the real world so she could create a favorable world to lure children in with her rats. Is the implication that she actually lured them into the world and they climbed through the house's digestive tract just like DF? Then once they came through the other side she captured them? Then maybe when they were freed they just assumed they had had a dream like DF did the first time she went through? I don't know though, there didn't seem to be any inclination that it would have played out that way and it seems more plausible that it was some kind of illusion. I would think the parents would have noticed their bag of rotting groceries on the table and started to wonder where the fuck those couple days had gone.

[syntheticgerbil]

WHY ARE YOU GUYS NAMING THESE CHARACTERS BY THEIR CELEBRITY VOICE ACTORS?!

 

Anyway, I too love the movie Coraline. My take on the otherwordly characters with the want to help Coraline is that they were other captured souls, kind of like the ghost children, but I could be off having not seen the movie in a few years.

[dibs]

Yes, wasn't there something about other mother eventually eating their souls? I've also read the graphic novel version, but never the book.

I'm giving my niece my copy of the graveyard book as soon as she is old enough though!

[Zeusthecat]

Yes, wasn't there something about other mother eventually eating their souls? I've also read the graphic novel version, but never the book.

I'm giving my niece my copy of the graveyard book as soon as she is old enough though!

 

I think she actually physically consumed the children in some way when they agreed to have buttons sewn into their eyes, trapping their souls (not consuming them) in her world and using their souls to power her world so that she could lure in more "food". Then when DF finds their eyes that part of the world unravels until all that's left is the main living room/spider web with the portal to the real world because STH loses control of them. But I'm only aware of what is shown in the movie.

 

It could be that she eventually eats the souls of children that are lured in and maybe just always keeps a few around to help power her world until the next victim arrives. So maybe the copies helping her are other trapped souls entirely or are just the 3 trapped children souls gaining a slight amount of control over the world as STH weakens from not feeding. Or like Ucantalas said, all the creatures in that world could have simply been created by STH and given free will and the souls are used to just expand the limits of the world and further flesh it out. I would think any soul captured by her would be pissed off and want to help DF but it seems like every other creature in that world is doing STH's bidding.

[tegan]

I watched the movie again just today!

 

I almost forgot about all of the hand-themed imagery in the movie. Such good foreshadowing!

 

The only thing that kind of bugs me is that they changed the ending a little. I always really liked that Coraline isn't safe after the big showdown with the Beldam. The hand is still out there. It's refreshing to see that things aren't wrapped up nicely. But in the movie, she's saved by Wybie after the hand attacks her; while in the book, she traps the hand herself by setting a tablecloth over the well and pretending to have a tea party using the disguised well as a table. I guess the movie's ending at least gives Wybie an excuse to exist besides delivering exposition, but I loved Coraline's plan in the book. It's so perfectly kidlike to use a tea party as a trap, plus it's weird to have such an incidental character save the perfectly capable protagonist in the last action of the book.

 

I also remembered that the Other Father is handled a little differently. In the movie, he's more autonomous and is physically forced to attack Coraline by his weird mantis machine controlling his limbs; plus he seems to be made from a pumpkin, with his glamour fading as the Bedlam becomes more unstable. In the book he still doesn't want to hurt Coraline, but only does so when he deteriorates into an insect-like monster that acts on instinct, which is much more interesting to me.

 

 

EDIT: also I forgot about that one little song by They Might Be Giants from the movie. So great.

[tabacco]

I almost forgot about all of the hand-themed imagery in the movie. Such good foreshadowing!

There's an extreme Grickle hand in one shot of the father that makes me laugh every time.

[Zeusthecat]

...But in the movie, she's saved by Wybie after the hand attacks her; while in the book, she traps the hand herself by setting a tablecloth over the well and pretending to have a tea party using the disguised well as a table...

 

I always thought Wybie showing up at the end like that felt a little out of place. From what you're saying about the book it sounds like "Why were you born" is actually pretty damn clever.

 

 

 

I also remembered that the Other Father is handled a little differently. In the movie, he's more autonomous and is physically forced to attack Coraline by his weird mantis machine controlling his limbs; plus he seems to be made from a pumpkin, with his glamour fading as the Bedlam becomes more unstable. In the book he still doesn't want to hurt Coraline, but only does so when he deteriorates into an insect-like monster that acts on instinct, which is much more interesting to me.

 

So then it sounds like she did create all of the creatures in the other world and to some degree they became more complex and autonomous by the presence of the children's trapped souls or something like that? It seemed to me like once Coraline (I'll stop saying DF) got the three eyes the only creatures left in that world were the mindless bug creatures and anything that was appealing about the world had unraveled. Maybe then, other father and other Wybie were at some level being influenced by the lost children. But then there's still the fact that they start to lose their shit when spider woman weakens.

 

Did the book go into further details about how exactly her parents were captured? Also, was the other world sucking the life out of the real world or something? I never paid much attention before but it seemed like suddenly everyone was all lively and stuff started to grow at the very end indicating that the horribly depressing nature of the world was due to the presence of the other world. Did Coraline's parents start acting shittier to her when they arrived at the house or were they always that way? I just wonder if the other mother had some level of influence over the real world and was able to also influence the behavior of the real parents once they got there.

[Ben X]

Oh yeah, Paranorman's on my list to watch. It didn't look great from the trailers, but it got good reviews. Apparently, it has the first

openly gay character

in a mainstream children's animated film, too, which is interesting.

 

Finally got to see this, didn't enjoy it at all. It looks great (although the character design is inconsistent and ugly at times) but it's slow, meandering and preachy.