Idle Thumbs 111: Cruisin' for a Word that Rhymes With Cruisin'

[Urthman]

  On 6/23/2013 at 2:55 AM, Twig said:

But mostly just Congrats Nick.

 

Yeah, I just can't forgive Nick for going away, never coming back, and ending Idle Thumbs forever.  I sure miss that podcast.

[Urthman]

The interview with Sean is great, but the segment before that where Molyneux reviews fart apps for the iPhone is the best.  He's so funny and self-depreciating.  Between that and his evident good humor about petermolydeux, I like the guy a whole lot.  And his app idea is hilarious and brilliant: make an app that listens to your farts and rates them, comparing them with a database of farts and telling you, "You just farted like a 57-year-old Norwegian fisherman."

 

Also, what he says at the beginning of the interview with Sean about the horror of being in an interview and knowing you have to say something right now, no matter how dumb it is, made me feel all sympathetic for the guy about how I used to laugh at OldManMurray poking fun at some of his more ridiculous quotes.  They're still funny, but I get the impression he'd agree that they're funny too.

[Coods]

  On 6/24/2013 at 6:42 PM, Urthman said:

The interview with Sean is great, but the segment before that where Molyneux reviews fart apps for the iPhone is the best.  He's so funny and self-depreciating.  Between that and his evident good humor about petermolydeux, I like the guy a whole lot. 

 

"Brilliant idea, poor execution, that´s almost like a testimony to my game design theories."

 

jeez. 

[plasticflesh]

  On 6/21/2013 at 3:34 AM, Dirk Anger said:

Indeed.

After all, for the real PC Sound Experience? You didn't need no bloody speakers!

Only... THE SPEAKER!

[...]

OH THE GLORY!!!!

 

 

Apogee's

 had great use of the internal speaker. So did the intro for

.

[coaxmetal]

Man, I loved this episode. Thanks guys. Great emails too.

 

Wrt the email about stealth vs cinematic experience, I felt that The Last of Us (which I haven't finished yet, but ive played several hours) didn't really have that issue. For me, the mark of the ninja style stealth systems, the ones that provide additional information, sort of simulate the stealth acumen of, say, a ninja. Also that game (and others with similar mechanics) are very stealth focused -- breaking stealth can be a failure state or have point/achievement/gameplay consequences for the rest of the level. Anyway, in The Last of Us, Joel isn't a magic stealth expert and the game doesn't (at least thusfar) ever require stealth. The process of stealthily taking out a few people, then getting noticed and having to use firearms to clear the rest of the people/zombies feels natural; it fits with the world and character. And as far as I can tell there are no consequences to breaking stealth aside from using ammo.

 

Also it's pretty cool that I could digitally purchase and download that game. I do it all the time on steam but it feels novel on a console.

 

e: also, before listened to this episode, I read the title as though someone was cruisin' along, trying to find a word that rhymes with cruisin'.

[H. Yawl]

Sean looks on the verge of tears, good job guys!  After so many years of listening to all of you ramble on about video games that I love and making me laugh uncontrollably I just want to congratulate you on your multiple successes.  You have turned the industry in your direction.

[thestalkinghead]

can someone explain to me what "citizen kane of games" actually means in a non-ironic and ironic way? 

 

i wasn't around when citizen kane came out and all i know about it is the plot twist, so is the plot twist the thing? 

 

i liked to replay the walking dead, but i liked to make consistent stories for myself so i would decide on an attitude for my next playthrough so it was easy to keep the stories separate in my head 

[Coods]

  On 6/26/2013 at 4:49 AM, thestalkinghead said:

can someone explain to me what "citizen kane of games" actually means in a non-ironic and ironic way? 

 

i wasn't around when citizen kane came out and all i know about it is the plot twist, so is the plot twist the thing? 

 

Supposedly it refers to a game that is innovative/revolutionary and changes the way video games are viewed as an artistic medium, like Citizen Kane did for film.

 

But in practice it's often just a substitute for "good", and like Chris said, is like a meaningless buzzphrase.

 

What's funny is that it's just a weird accolade to say about anything, and "games close in on citizen kane moment" implies that games are actively looking for a singular experience that mirrors a significant experience of an entirely different medium.

[Badfinger]

Citizen Kane was a seminal moment in filmmaking. It doesn't follow the format of a written play and is one of the best/earliest examples of movies breaking out of a conventional storytelling mold and becoming their own interpretive medium, rather than just another way to present the same thing as a book or play. It's also still considered by a bunch of people to be one of the greatest films of all time, and holds up remarkably well today.

Video gaming having its "Citizen Kane" moment would be where narratively, structurally a game does something of merit in a way that no other medium can, while being broadly recognized and accepted for it.

At least, that's how I think of it. Would love to see other interpretations. Which makes it twice as silly that stuff like Tony Hawk shows up in that tumblr, let alone games that aren't even all that good.

[Coods]

  On 6/26/2013 at 5:40 AM, Badfinger said:

At least, that's how I think of it. Would love to see other interpretations. Which makes it twice as silly that stuff like Tony Hawk shows up in that tumblr, let alone games that aren't even all that good.

 

Jake did have a point, in that the article does call Citizen Kane the "cinematic counterpart" specifically referring to the visual elements.

 

So I guess Tony Hawk Pro Skater is actually the closest we've gotten. Gettin' there.

[Patrick R]

The problem is, it's not a hard line of pre and post Citizen Kane. There are more than a few silent films that could claim the mastery of craft are singular cinematic expressions in the same way Citizen Kane is. The Last Laugh is not a novel or a play.

 

It's funny that all this Citizen Kane stuff is popping up recently, because last year Sight & Sound's prestigious once-a-decade film poll declared, for the first time since it's inception, that Vertigo, not Citizen Kane, was the greatest movie of all time. Which means it isn't even regarded as the end-all be-all greatest achievement of cinema by film scholars anymore (not that any poll is objective proof of anything, but it's the best way I know of to chart the shifting regard of films throughout history). 

 

Also, Citizen Kane wasn't widely considered The Citizen Kane of Film upon it's release, so it's possible that gaming's Citizen Kane moment* already happened and we just need time and space to catch up with it. I bet it was Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters Melee for the Gamecube.

 

*A totally false and ridiculous thing.

[Coods]

  On 6/26/2013 at 5:59 AM, Patrick R said:

Also, Citizen Kane wasn't widely considered The Citizen Kane of Film upon it's release, so it's possible that gaming's Citizen Kane moment* already happened and we just need time and space to catch up with it.

 

Far Cry 2

[Justin Leego]

Preach it brother!

(preferably whilst rolling down a hill)

[Badfinger]

  On 6/26/2013 at 5:59 AM, Patrick R said:

The problem is, it's not a hard line of pre and post Citizen Kane. There are more than a few silent films that could claim the mastery of craft are singular cinematic expressions in the same way Citizen Kane is. The Last Laugh is not a novel or a play.

 

It's funny that all this Citizen Kane stuff is popping up recently, because last year Sight & Sound's prestigious once-a-decade film poll declared, for the first time since it's inception, that Vertigo, not Citizen Kane, was the greatest movie of all time. Which means it isn't even regarded as the end-all be-all greatest achievement of cinema by film scholars anymore (not that any poll is objective proof of anything, but it's the best way I know of to chart the shifting regard of films throughout history). 

 

Also, Citizen Kane wasn't widely considered The Citizen Kane of Film upon it's release, so it's possible that gaming's Citizen Kane moment* already happened and we just need time and space to catch up with it. I bet it was Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters Melee for the Gamecube.

 

*A totally false and ridiculous thing.

 

I don't think it needs to be considered the best film of all time to receive the accolades it does. It's just a moment that can be pointed to and is generally accepted where you can say "look we did it we're a big boy art medium now!" You're also totally right that mastery of concept could have happened prior to Citizen Kane, but something like that is true of most times and places in history where you point to something and suggest that it alone is The Thing That's Important.

 

e: In that poll, the Directors suggest there hasn't been a work in 33 years "great" enough to make the list, and the Critics say 45. Guess what, that's probably nonsense but it's the way of the world.

 

  Quote

Jake did have a point, in that the article does call Citizen Kane the "cinematic counterpart" specifically referring to the visual elements.

 

So I guess Tony Hawk Pro Skater is actually the closest we've gotten. Gettin' there.

 

Oh I agree with him that the use of comparison to Citizen Kane in that way is a totally valid usage. I think the writer's mistake was using Citizen Kane at all, where a reference to something more modern or had more similarities would have been better even if it didn't carry the same GRAVITAS. I think Tony Hawk shows up on the tumblr more than once, though.

[Chris]

  On 6/26/2013 at 12:56 PM, Badfinger said:

e: In that poll, the Directors suggest there hasn't been a work in 33 years "great" enough to make the list, and the Critics say 45. Guess what, that's probably nonsense but it's the way of the world.

I don't think that's necessarily the claim to infer. I think a more accurate implication might be that not enough time has passed to know which recent films deserve a place among the more time-tested greats. That's not to say you have to agree with that claim either, it's just usually how I interpret this kind of thing.

[Patrick R]

Yeah. It's the same reason that poll is only done once every ten years. But In The Mood For Love is from 2000 and made the top 25, and Mulholland Dr. from 2003 is only just outside that. But that temporal distance (along with a more carefully selected voting base, of course) is what keeps the Sight & Sound list from looking like the IMDB 250, where movies like The Dark Knight and Inception shoot up to the top almost immediately upon release. 

[feelthedarkness]

One of the sub-problems with the CK of Game is that there is no agreed standard, and generally we look to narrative content to be that defining element, rather than pure mechanic. i think the counterargument to that is pure mechanic would be chess, and chess isn't the Citizen Kane of Game. 

[thestalkinghead]

so isn't super mario bros 2 the citizen kane of games?

[Badfinger]

  On 6/26/2013 at 8:03 PM, Chris said:

I don't think that's necessarily the claim to infer. I think a more accurate implication might be that not enough time has passed to know which recent films deserve a place among the more time-tested greats. That's not to say you have to agree with that claim either, it's just usually how I interpret this kind of thing.

 

I don't actually think people don't think there hasn't been a truly great movie for 30+ years, I just think that the polling sample, almost necessarily, is skewed to be more likely to select works that are older. Either what influenced them, or the influence for the influence, or just people who are so steeped in film that think purer/earliier is better on its face.

[sclpls]

It never ends... from Rock, Paper, Shotgun today: "Leisure Suit Larry is basically gaming’s Citizen Kane"

[malkav11]

  On 6/27/2013 at 9:51 PM, sclpls said:

It never ends... from Rock, Paper, Shotgun today: "Leisure Suit Larry is basically gaming’s Citizen Kane"

 

To be fair, he actually went into extended detail about why he was making that comparison.

[sclpls]

This is true! So it's not as bad as it typically is, but it is still ridiculous.

[thestalkinghead]

or maybe half life is the citizen kane of games

[Badfinger]

It's also not saying that "Leisure Suit Larry Reloaded" is gaming's Citizen Kane.

 

I HAVE to think that the comparison was made with full intent to elicit the reaction above, because RPS ain't dumb and they have peer editing.

[sclpls]

  On 6/28/2013 at 12:31 PM, Badfinger said:

It's also not saying that "Leisure Suit Larry Reloaded" is gaming's Citizen Kane.

 

I HAVE to think that the comparison was made with full intent to elicit the reaction above, because RPS ain't dumb and they have peer editing.

 

RPS does have smart writing, and it is frequently tongue in cheek, and this was certainly an example of it. On the other hand, that whole paragraph didn't really need to be in there at all. It was ridiculous for the sake of being ridiculous, and while it might be self-aware it can still be called out for being what it is.