"Ethics and Journalistic Integrity"

[Vainamoinen]

Unghhhhhh. Trolling Adam Baldwin on twitter is not helpful in any way.

 

But it is, on occasion, hilarious.

[Gormongous]

  On 3/24/2015 at 8:55 PM, Vainamoinen said:

Unghhhhhh. Trolling Adam Baldwin on twitter is not helpful in any way.

 

But it is, on occasion, hilarious.

 

Yeah, it doesn't happen often anymore, but it is just fun to rubberneck occasionally at the more stupid moments that #GamerGate is still serving up. I don't get any happier from it, but there's still a sense of satisfaction in knowing that the remaining supporters of such an ugly and hateful movement remain as ignorant and pathetic as they ever were.

[Henroid]

I appreciate hearing the dumb things about GamerGate because it is a testament to how fast (and thoroughly) information can spread. Whatever charges GG brings up, by comparison, it's easy to dig up info of how they orchestrate or distort things. At this point, when we're a year out from this shit having started, I really doubt you're gonna hear about any notable / established developers of any scale suddenly jumping up to go, "Why yes I support them."

 

Then again, with everything we know about smoking and the shit it causes people still do that.

 

Mark Kern is my favorite to rubberneck / observe because he's being elevated by GG, but his career was literally dormant for a decade, and his most notable work was under the umbrella of Blizzard.

[Deadpan]

Storify certainly speaks to a weird hole in Twitter functionality that had to be filled this way*, but I remain unconvinced that people who like it or are just prone to longer rants and such are using the platform wrong. At least, from where I'm standing, the idea that they just should write a blog post instead reads like "I don't get why people record speeches or stand-up performances, the should just put the same content in a movie instead." There's certainly something quite different about the immediacy of getting your thoughts out there one after another instead of the perceived pressure of having to premeditate them on a larger scale.

 

Jay Allen and Sarah Butts chronicling all this terrible stuff has been quite effective at showing non-games people how bad it is, for me at least, similar to how David Futrelle keeps track of all that MRA nonsense. Me saying it's bad and linking to articles saying it's bad is one thing, but this huge corpus of examples of their thoughts and actions is something else. Not worth getting them riled up, for sure, but I also don't think they necessarily have that much choice in the matter. Like, Sarah isn't going to be left alone even if she stops addressing them directly and just says what they did (and probably wouldn't be left alone even if she stopped talking on Twitter entirely at this point). I know the example we are talking about is Allen going at Baldwin, but it also points back to an earlier exchange when it was the other way around, and while that may just be Allen gloating about previous burns I wouldn't put it past Baldwin to keep attacking until Allen eventually gives in and engages him again.

 

Like, that prodding bears thing only applies to sleeping bears, right? Different approaches for when they are already awake and sniffing at you?

 

 

 

*although I once saw somebody use a Twitter collection to similar effect? Guess that didn't take of

[Mangela Lansbury]

  On 3/25/2015 at 6:57 PM, Deadpan said:

Storify certainly speaks to a weird hole in Twitter functionality that had to be filled this way*, but I remain unconvinced that people who like it or are just prone to longer rants and such are using the platform wrong. At least, from where I'm standing, the idea that they just should write a blog post instead reads like "I don't get why people record speeches or stand-up performances, the should just put the same content in a movie instead." There's certainly something quite different about the immediacy of getting your thoughts out there one after another instead of the perceived pressure of having to premeditate them on a larger scale.

 

Jeet Heer wrote a twitter essay in defense of twitter essays once. It has since been collected on Storify.

[Ben X]

  On 3/25/2015 at 6:57 PM, Deadpan said:

Like, that prodding bears thing only applies to sleeping bears, right? Different approaches for when they are already awake and sniffing at you?

 

I'm pretty sure the advice for that isn't prodding them either.

[tberton]

When you encounter a bear, you should make yourself look big and make loud noises.

[Mangela Lansbury]

When you encounter a bear, you should ask him what he's drinking. If you're lucky, you'll be prodding a bear in no time.

[Denial]

  Quote

Like, that prodding bears thing only applies to sleeping bears, right? Different approaches for when they are already awake and sniffing at you?

 

One of the really "woah" moments I had in the discussion of responding to Gamergate, although I have now sadly forgotten the provenance of it, was the statement, in response to the traditional injunctions not to feed the trolls, that this fails to understand the difference between the classic Usenet troll and modern forms like the sea lion: trolls want you to talk more - they want you to get angry and engage with them. Sea lions want you to talk less - they want you to feel so overwhelmed that you start to doubt yourself, or feel compelled to respond, or snap at one of them and then get endlessly pilloried for being rude. Storify, among other tools, feels like a useful way of documenting that this actually is some bullshit - that what might look like sincere inquiries are in fact a strategy deployed to try to exhaust you or catch you out.

[Merus]

"don't feed the trolls" was a strategy borne out of a system where there was no effective way for the community to police themselves. The troll's messages would get lost if not replied to, because Usenet archives were more often in the nest of replies than on a server, so it was the best strategy available. We do not live in that world, and that advice is useless.

[Cordeos]

I know this thread is more about the whole Gamergate thing, but I figured this was the best place to post this:

 

http://www.rferl.mobi/a/how-to-guide-russian-trolling-trolls/26919999.html

 

Its an interview with someone who was a paid Russian internet troll. Its something I became interested in after encountering several of these accounts across Facebook and Twitter. Usually the accounts have super generic profile pic and if you look at their post history/tweets all they ever do is post Pro-Russian comments/posts. Its very strange to live in a world with such an Orwellian institution.

 

I also think this relates to Gamergate stuff as it is an example of real paid trolls, as opposed to the people who are accused of being paid shills for SJW or whatever. 

[your name here]

  On 3/26/2015 at 12:52 PM, Merus said:

"don't feed the trolls" was a strategy borne out of a system where there was no effective way for the community to police themselves. The troll's messages would get lost if not replied to, because Usenet archives were more often in the nest of replies than on a server, so it was the best strategy available. We do not live in that world, and that advice is useless.

 

I think it's more that "don't feed the trolls" came from an understanding that trolling meant going into an anime forum and posting "anime sucks" and didn't mean targeted harassment of an individual.

[dium]

Yeah, that's more to the point. That kind of trolling — where the goal of the troll is straightforwardly to provoke an emotional reaction — still exists, and "don't feed the troll" is still decent advice for that comparatively mild situation. 

[deleted user]

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[deleted user]

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[Paul Smith]

 

  On 3/26/2015 at 4:39 PM, megaspel said:

Anyone can hire teams of trolls to push whatever message they like, usually it's "this app is very good no bugs at all 5 stars a++ would download this application once more thanks"

 

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20150205000035&cid=1303

[Henroid]

Never underestimate the effort people will go through to generate inorganic force of numbers.

[Vainamoinen]

The strategy does shed some light on how the display of opinions on the internet works, and that may even be on topic. The burning question, of course, is how many people are indeed associating with gamergate, and how many halfway sane people remain? Both numbers could be vastly exaggerated by just a few prominent voices.

[Fingus]

Apparently a GamerGater tried to hijack the Q&A session during a talk Brianna Wu held at YSU. Not sure what was said, I assume the usual thinly veiled loaded questions, but apparently police got involved so he may have been overtly threatening her.

[Smart Jason]

  Quote

So, just to be clear, here's what happened tonight. I gave a talk at YSU. We got to the Q&A portion, and I had a very, very agitated man

 

Just start with this angry, aggressive monologue. He had an folder of angry notes open. He'd been laughing and disruptive during talk.

 

I cut him off, asked if he had a question. He demanded I recognize the good Gamergate had done for women. I laughed and said I was moving on

 

Then he stormed out of the room, muttering and demanding I answer his questions. Police followed and barred him from talk. He left backpack

 

I was worried it was an IED, since people threaten to blow me up a lot, so police removed that too.

 

Side note: I genuinely didn't understand why people were asking if I was okay. I realize it's because I used the word hijack in my tweet.

 

I meant he hijacked by talk in the disruptive sense. Not other violent ones. Sorry, Twitter is just the worst at communicating this stuff.

[Vainamoinen]

Help me a bit please.

 

I'm looking for one of those infamous gamergate infographics, a very early one that detailed which companies gamergate/gamers 'want' and which ones they do not need.

[Reyturner]

Every time i listen to the You Are Not So Smart podcast, I think "This explains GG". 

[Henroid]

Sorry to treat this thread at the GG thread continually but I can't help but bring this kinda shit up.

 

TotalBiscuit apparently made some pretty transphobic statement or joke or something, while ironically getting politics into video games. I haven't found the exact statement yet. But he got GG whipped up into a frenzy of hating on trans people now, and is also saying "character assassination" as his defense for being called out on being transphobic.

 

Edit - Also this is being pointed out.

 

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/582250293108191232
 

  Quote

"It's just a joke, stop trying to censor developers" say the people who were upset by a sockpuppet joke.

[Problem Machine]

I think the main highlight of his in this case truly exceptional dumbassery was saying something along the lines of "if a trans woman doesn't disclose that she's actually a man and has sex with a guy then that's rape". Paraphrased, but basically that.

[Henroid]

  On 3/29/2015 at 10:13 PM, Problem Machine said:

I think the main highlight of his in this case truly exceptional dumbassery was saying something along the lines of "if a trans woman doesn't disclose that she's actually a man and has sex with a guy then that's rape". Paraphrased, but basically that.

What the actual fuck.