Jake Posted October 30, 2014 Yes a new show! And it's a new designer interview series! And it's hosted by Soren Johnson, who you may know from his appearances on Three Moves Ahead, his studio Mohawk Games, or his work as the lead designer of Civilization IV. Anyway without further ado here's the first episode! Designer Notes 1: Rob Pardo - Part 1 Welcome to Designer Notes, a podcast about why we make games, hosted by Soren Johnson of Mohawk Games. In our first episode, Soren sits down with Rob Pardo, formerly the Chief Creative Officer at Blizzard Entertainment, to discuss his game design career, or at least as much as could fit into this first of two parts! Rob is best known for his design work on StarCraft 1 & 2, Warcraft 3, and World of Warcraft. Games Discussed: Dungeons & Dragons, the Ultima series, StarCraft, StarCraft: Brood War, Diablo 1 & 2, Warcraft 3 Listen on the Episode Page Subscribe in iTunes Subscribe to the RSS Feed We are still investigating SoundCloud support but iTunes is now live! And of course, you can listen and subscribe via RSS.Enjoy! - Jake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apelsin Posted October 30, 2014 Episodses my precioussss... Looking forward to this! Always nice with more designer speak. Hopefully lots of stuff to pick up! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bjorn Posted October 30, 2014 Woah, new show! It's like Christmas in Halloween! I really like listening to professionals talk about the craft of game design and their history in the industry, so this is something I fully support. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anjin Posted October 30, 2014 Soren is great every time I've heard him on 3MA. But Rob Pardo? What an amazing way to start a cast. I can't wait to listen! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted October 30, 2014 Wow, I will listen to this as soon as I have the chance! Great to see the network expanding with such choice titles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigJKO Posted October 30, 2014 Holy shit! This is amazing! Can't wait to listen to this! EDIT: All of the links seem to just go to the episode page (instead of, say.. an RSS feed) EEEDIT: Found it, on the show's main page! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Posted October 30, 2014 On 10/30/2014 at 5:11 PM, BigJKO said: Holy shit! This is amazing! Can't wait to listen to this! EDIT: All of the links seem to just go to the episode page (instead of, say.. an RSS feed) EEEDIT: Found it, on the show's main page! RSS link fixed, sorry about that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soren Johnson Posted October 30, 2014 Hi everybody, thanks for listening! Just so you, I had the tradition first-podcast-audio-problems, but they go away after the first ten or fifteen minutes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henroid Posted October 30, 2014 Just a few minutes in but Rob Pardo is a hell of a get for a first episode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
15th_century_cartographer Posted October 30, 2014 Yes, please. I luff yew Jake. Gibe more podcasts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henroid Posted October 30, 2014 I'm at the point where Pardo is discussing the game speed in Starcraft, and man... Never considered the implications of that. I mean at a competitive level at least; I certainly thought about it when playing the campaign once in a while. Edit - I really like Rob's outlook or theory on game design, when it comes to RTS' at least. It certainly isn't universal truth but it does make sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sclpls Posted October 30, 2014 This was such a great discussion. I barely know where to begin, but I guess one thought that immediately leaps out is about the discussion about rushing strategies, and why they were so divisive. I remember playing a lot of the C&C games, Warcraft 1 & 2, and a whole lot of Total Annihilation. Rushing was always a source of a lot of heated debate. Like, a turtling strategy could be really annoying to deal with, but rushing occupied this special place in the discourse surrounding the balance of RTS, and I think it basically had to do with anxiety about a dominant strategy precluding other sorts of strategies that might otherwise be viable. Rob's answer for how to deal with a rush strategy is absolutely correct, you just need to recon properly and compensate, but back then I think most of us playing those games only had a basic and crude intuitive sense of recon strategies. Certainly you weren't going to learn anything valuable from playing the AI. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CollegeBaby Posted October 31, 2014 Soren Johnson, Rob Pardo and sweet jazz. Aww yeah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sclpls Posted October 31, 2014 So I have to ask, when can we expect to see part 2 released? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soren Johnson Posted October 31, 2014 I'd like to do them once per month, so probably the first week of December. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henroid Posted October 31, 2014 On 10/30/2014 at 11:42 PM, sclpls said: This was such a great discussion. I barely know where to begin, but I guess one thought that immediately leaps out is about the discussion about rushing strategies, and why they were so divisive. I remember playing a lot of the C&C games, Warcraft 1 & 2, and a whole lot of Total Annihilation. Rushing was always a source of a lot of heated debate. Like, a turtling strategy could be really annoying to deal with, but rushing occupied this special place in the discourse surrounding the balance of RTS, and I think it basically had to do with anxiety about a dominant strategy precluding other sorts of strategies that might otherwise be viable. Rob's answer for how to deal with a rush strategy is absolutely correct, you just need to recon properly and compensate, but back then I think most of us playing those games only had a basic and crude intuitive sense of recon strategies. Certainly you weren't going to learn anything valuable from playing the AI. Warcraft 3 is the RTS that broke my habit of using turtling strategies in online matches (I still do it in campaign / story levels). The game put an emphasis on your standing army being your best defense, way stronger than any defensive structure you could build. And of course when you have a standing army in WC3, you may as well go out and level your hero. You may engage the enemy also. Crush some expansion they're making, maybe? It wasn't until this podcast that I considered how much of an impact WC3 had on my playstyle. I'd since gone back to Warcraft 2, Starcraft, and Total Annihilation, and playing them was REALLY different than my typical shenanigans. As a quick anecdote: I once played a round of WC3 against someone that flipped their shit at me because I had a tower built near my lumberjacking peons. He went crazy bananas about me being a towering baby - it was ONE tower, not a wall of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sclpls Posted October 31, 2014 It's interesting that turtling is the go to strategy for so many people in strategy games. I used to turtle when playing board games like Eclipse and Game of Thrones, and other types of games that involve expansion & development, but also have conflict as a constant risk. I don't know what happened, but at a certain point something snapped in my brain and I learned to start taking more risks by starting conflicts that I might not win. I think it has to do with how our brains overvalue things we might potentially lose. You kind of have to remind yourself you are playing a game sometimes. I think you end up doing a lot better at most games once you get over that psychological hurdle. So I definitely agree with Rob's philosophy of kind of nerfing defensive strategies, and think it makes good design sense to nudge the player towards less reactive play styles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henroid Posted October 31, 2014 Turtling kinda gives breathing room to explore what things actually are though, and to test their effectiveness. Otherwise it's like playing just one race in a game; you don't know what other functions in the game are capable of if you don't take the time to figure it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Posted November 3, 2014 Designer Notes is now on iTunes, which means it's also more easily accessible by many podcast subscription/listening apps! https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/designer-notes/id935345158?mt=2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fallout Posted November 5, 2014 I really enjoyed this! I've been a fan of Soren's design discussions since I bought Civilization Chronicles, which included a DVD containing a video of him and Dorian Newcomb discussing their approach to prototyping Civ 4. The discussion was pretty great ... it was interesting to hear Pardo's thoughts on desiging SC2, Brood War and WC3. That said, damn does he have an ego. I guess I can't blame him, given his pedigree, but a lot of it comes off as: "Everything sucked until I showed up and then it was great because I'm the best." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BusbyBerkeley Posted November 5, 2014 Oof, just realized this was only the first part of the discussion. I was so damn confused when it just ended after that jazz break. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tberton Posted November 5, 2014 On 11/5/2014 at 2:54 AM, fallout said: The discussion was pretty great ... it was interesting to hear Pardo's thoughts on desiging SC2, Brood War and WC3. That said, damn does he have an ego. I guess I can't blame him, given his pedigree, but a lot of it comes off as: "Everything sucked until I showed up and then it was great because I'm the best." Yeah, that grated on me a bit too. I mean, yes, the discussion was focused on him and it was fantastic, but a bit of humility would be nice. I'm sure there were dozens of other people who had an equally huge impact on those games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sclpls Posted November 5, 2014 He didn't come off as egotistical to me. His accomplishments are impressive, and he was directly asked about his contributions to these games, so yeah, he's going to say what he brought to the table. What he said he accomplished comports with what I've read about his contributions from other Blizzard employees. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted November 5, 2014 I really enjoyed the super frank talk about how the sausage was made. Blizzard games have been a HUGE part of my teenage years, from Warcraft II up, so getting to know how it all looked from inside is a delight. Hearing about balancing difficulties, how the stories and even the singleplayer were almost a last minute consideration, gosh! And yet, notably the story in Starcraft was a big inspiration to me. I'll be very interested to hear the second part. Good job, Soren! And thanks for participating, Rob! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
