Twin Peaks Rewatch 15: Lonely Souls

[LostInTheMovies]

  On 1/25/2015 at 10:39 PM, Horza said:

I meant that you see the contents of the spoiler section in the edit view. I just immediately thought about the (unlikely) worst case scenario of a first time viewer quoting a post containing both questions to first time viewers and mega spoilers.

 

Ah, I see. I guess the only way to fix that would be if Chris or Jake can change the settings so that the default composer screen does not show html (although weirdly, it only seems to show html w/r/t spoilers).

[Mishi]

  On 1/25/2015 at 4:37 PM, gormanate said:

I really love the first scene at the Palmer house in this episode. Something about the way its shot, with "What a Wonderful World" playing in the background, and knowing what's about to come....something about it was quite powerful

This rewatch is my first since watching the original airing. I had always recalled "What a Wondeful World" as playing behind the Leland/Maddy scene. I was stunned to see that it actually fell at the beginning of the episode. I think that speaks to what a powerful choice it was.

 

(PS Hi, I am new!)

[AgentCoop]

I also love how Lynch puts the record player in the foreground during the Leland/Sarah/Maddy scene. It's only on a rewatch that you realize it's foreshadowing.

[Fingus]

Man, when the Catherine/Tojamura reveal was happening I thought it was another psychic apparition or dream sequence. I was half expecting Bob to suddenly pop up and speak in Jocelyn's voice.

By the way, what was the deal with the horse? Also, why was Sarah crawling down the stairs in pain like that? I assume that either she could sense Bob's presence, as she has before, or she was poisoned.

I'm also of the impression that Bob inhabiting Leland caused his hair to turn white, as Bob's hair is also white. Perhaps these spirits posess weakened and fragile minds. The one armed man is allegedly suffering from schizophrenia, and poor Leland was just ruined by grief.

Assuming that Bob has inhabited Leland since he was a child at his cabin leads to some horrible repercussions. Wouldn't that mean that the Bob that Laura interacted with and had a relationship with was her dad? How could that not be mentioned in her diary in any way? All she says is that Bob was a friend of her dad. Perhaps he takes the shape of Bob as well, and him fading between Leland and Bob in the final scene is an actual physical change and not just a vision.

[SuperBiasedMan]

That moment of Leland looking into the mirror was so much more devastating on this rewatch.

 

Uh, very mild FWWM spoilers I guess.

  Reveal hidden contents

Having seen FWWM and learned more about the nature of Leland/Bob, that moment of him watching his reflection as Bob just perfectly captured the symbiosis they have. Bob is not a controlling force, he's a partner to Leland. This is further carried out through the whole scene, control swaps back and forth with emotions pouring out of him. Then of course Bob has a line about Leland telling him Maddy is leaving, and Bob almost seems to be doing this in part for Leland. Obviously Bob is not some altruistic buddy of Leland's. But I totally got the sense that there was co-operation going on here, and that Leland was willingly drawing on Bob just as much as Bob was making use of Leland's body.

 

 

The Nadine storyline is usually pretty flat, as is the Ed/Norma one to me, really. But every so often there's a moment like this and it breaks through to me as a reminder that these people just live deeply unhappy lives. Ed is trapped in an unwanted marriage with an unstable woman. Norma is married to a convict and watching the man she loves stay locked away from her with another woman. But Nadine. I mean, I really think her storyline is such a shame because the character is so tragic. Her husband doesn't have the guts to leave her but he is willing to openly bemoan her presence around him. Her only way to rectify the state of her life is to first devote her entire existence to making the world's most silent drape runner, then to commit suicide, and then she languishes in a living fantasy of her dream highschool life with the boy she always loved. Sure these are all goofy and played for laughs, but if there's ever a show that warrants looking at the darker side to something, this is it.

[LostInTheMovies]

  On 1/27/2015 at 12:42 AM, SuperBiasedMan said:

That moment of Leland looking into the mirror was so much more devastating on this rewatch.

 

Uh, very mild FWWM spoilers I guess.

  Reveal hidden contents

Having seen FWWM and learned more about the nature of Leland/Bob, that moment of him watching his reflection as Bob just perfectly captured the symbiosis they have. Bob is not a controlling force, he's a partner to Leland. This is further carried out through the whole scene, control swaps back and forth with emotions pouring out of him. Then of course Bob has a line about Leland telling him Maddy is leaving, and Bob almost seems to be doing this in part for Leland. Obviously Bob is not some altruistic buddy of Leland's. But I totally got the sense that there was co-operation going on here, and that Leland was willingly drawing on Bob just as much as Bob was making use of Leland's body.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Yes, and Bob really has no "motive" to kill Maddy, at least no more than he would have to kill anyone else. Whereas Leland does: Maddy has become a kind of surrogate daughter to him and now she's re-asserting her independence and going back to Missoula. Which not only re-awakens his grief & guilt over killing Laura but also emphasizes that he can't control her. That's the common thread in all his kills: he covers Teresa's eyes and gloats that she doesn't know who he is then kills her once she does (and threatens to blackmail him) and the trigger for his murder of Laura is that morning when she tells him "stay away from me" (after he apparently thought they had some kind of understanding about the incest). Bob is along for the ride, feeding off the fear and pleasures (I don't think he eats garmonbozia/pain and sorrow - I think that's Mike's diet), although he definitely can goad a host into action and prey upon their weaknesses.

 

But while I think Leland calls upon Bob's energy subconsciously, I do not think he actually knows about him (at least not until his death scene). He is aware of and responsible for everything done under Bob's influence/in his presence but not of the larger evil force he is enmeshed in. If that makes sense.

[AgentCoop]

Another scene that I love in this episode is Shelly quitting her job. It should be completely banal and uninteresting, but the use of music and the performances of Madchen Amick and Peggy Lipton really turn into something sad, sweet and even kind of moving.

[Elen]

  Quote

I really love the first scene at the Palmer house in this episode. Something about the way its shot, with "What a Wonderful World" playing in the background, and knowing what's about to come....something about it was quite powerful

That record skipping sound haunts my nightmares.

 

  Quote

Another scene that I love in this episode is Shelly quitting her job. It should be completely banal and uninteresting, but the use of music and the performances of Madchen Amick and Peggy Lipton really turn into something sad, sweet and even kind of moving.

I love that scene. Norma and Shelly have a very sweet, supportive relationship- maybe the only really supportive relationship in Shelly's life.

[Scarecrow237]

  On 1/26/2015 at 6:05 PM, Fingus said:

Man, when the Catherine/Tojamura reveal was happening I thought it was another psychic apparition or dream sequence. I was half expecting Bob to suddenly pop up and speak in Jocelyn's voice.

By the way, what was the deal with the horse? Also, why was Sarah crawling down the stairs in pain like that? I assume that either she could sense Bob's presence, as she has before, or she was poisoned.

I'm also of the impression that Bob inhabiting Leland caused his hair to turn white, as Bob's hair is also white. Perhaps these spirits posess weakened and fragile minds. The one armed man is allegedly suffering from schizophrenia, and poor Leland was just ruined by grief.

Assuming that Bob has inhabited Leland since he was a child at his cabin leads to some horrible repercussions. Wouldn't that mean that the Bob that Laura interacted with and had a relationship with was her dad? How could that not be mentioned in her diary in any way? All she says is that Bob was a friend of her dad. Perhaps he takes the shape of Bob as well, and him fading between Leland and Bob in the final scene is an actual physical change and not just a vision.

 

Sarah Palmer was poisoned/drugged.  The drug used was heroin, which is also sometimes referred to as "horse".  Sometimes the symbols can be that obvious.  

 

There are many times throughout the show prior to this where Dr. Haywood is giving Sarah a sedative.  I've always assumed that Dr. Haywood thought that Sarah had a heroin dependency, when it was actually Leland dosing his wife with drugs to, ah, get away with certain things.

[Jake]

the podcast episode is up!

I don't really feel like I did my reactions to this episode justice when recording the podcast, but what can you do?

Unrelated to that: The discussion threads for this episode and last have been fantastic and incredibly insightful. I'm floored every week. It's soo good. You're all the best.

[Argobot]

Wow, really wish that the film of the Ben Horne/Maddy scene still exists somewhere.

 

Edit: Also, to correct what was said on the podcast: I am really happy that FWWM exists. I think it's a great movie that gets a bad rep. If the movie was a little more ambiguous about the particular's of Laura's murder scene I'd be happy, that's all I meant.

[Jake]

  On 1/28/2015 at 3:19 AM, Argobot said:

Wow, really wish that the film of the Ben Horne/Maddy scene still exists somewhere.

 

Edit: Also, to correct what was said on the podcast: I am really happy that FWWM exists. I think it's a great movie that gets a bad rep. If the movie was a little more ambiguous about the particular's of Laura's murder scene I'd be happy, that's all I meant.

Oops sorry for generalizing your specific remark!

[SirJakoz]

  On 1/27/2015 at 4:32 PM, Scarecrow237 said:

Sarah Palmer was poisoned/drugged.  The drug used was heroin, which is also sometimes referred to as "horse".  Sometimes the symbols can be that obvious.  

 

There are many times throughout the show prior to this where Dr. Haywood is giving Sarah a sedative.  I've always assumed that Dr. Haywood thought that Sarah had a heroin dependency, when it was actually Leland dosing his wife with drugs to, ah, get away with certain things.

 

Oh wow, I had no idea

[LostInTheMovies]

  On 1/28/2015 at 9:54 AM, SirJakoz said:

Oh wow, I had no idea

 

I think there are two later places where this is referenced (not sure if you've seen the rest of the series/film or not so, spoilers if you haven't, but if you have these may be useful reminders):

  Reveal hidden contents

Cooper tells Sarah that she was being drugged. I'm not sure how he knows this but it is certainly consistent with what we see in this episode. His whole speech is very let-Leland-off-the-hook ("your husband didn't do these things, not the Leland you knew") which turns out to not really be true but I would assume he's right about the physical details.

 

Also, in FWWM we actually see Leland giving his wife the glass of milk. It's a very chilling scene because she stops drinking at a certain point and he nudges her hand a little and she kind of flinches and drinks the rest. Two or three times during this scene he briefly looks up at the mirror. Keeping in mind that Leland has not yet turned on the ceiling fan that "summons" Bob, and that we later see Bob crawling in through the window, essentially "joining the party" once Leland is already molesting Laura I think this is to emphasize that Leland's reflection is in the mirror and we are witnessing actions he is fully responsible for.

[SirJakoz]

  On 1/28/2015 at 1:53 PM, LostInTheMovies said:

I think there are two later places where this is referenced (not sure if you've seen the rest of the series/film or not so, spoilers if you haven't, but if you have these may be useful reminders):

 

This is my first time watching it, my 'wow' was mostly referring to the horse/heroin association, I'll get back to the spoiler part after watching the rest of the episodes, thanks!

[LostInTheMovies]

  On 1/28/2015 at 3:19 AM, Argobot said:

If the movie was a little more ambiguous about the particular's of Laura's murder scene I'd be happy, that's all I meant.

 

This was how I felt for a long time. It seemed like the movie is very powerful up to that point and then it just had to follow through on its really grim arc. In a weird way, it felt almost like an anticlimax and a depressing end to a character we've been following for two hours even though we know it's inevitable. And the Maddy scene IS doubly powerful when you see it not just as this horrible murder of one character, but also our only possible insight to the source of the whole mystery we've been watching up to now.

 

That said...

  Reveal hidden contents

I have recently re-evaluated the end of FWWM. I think it's very challenging not just for the viewer but also for Lynch for the aforementioned reasons. He wanted to make the movie because he wanted to see Laura "live, move, and talk" in his own words but he was stuck with a pessimistic ending barely redeemed by Laura's "demanding to die to free herself from Bob." I've been reading/researching a lot about the film recently for a video series I am making and I discovered that Sheryl Lee and Phoebe Augustine (who plays Ronette) had conversations with Lynch about how hopeless the film felt and that out of these conversations, he begin to add the angels to the story. (They are not in the script.) Likewise, Laura never takes the ring in the script - she just asks Leland to kill her and he does.

 

By adding these elements, and taking out the part where Laura demands to be killed, Lynch is subtly changing the entire purpose of the scene. It's easy to miss because everything goes by so quickly but it's there if you look for it: Laura is not deciding to die, she is deciding to rid herself of Bob and assert herself against Leland, and the death is only a byproduct of this.

 

In a way the scene in the movie actually isn't as straightforward as it initially appears and leaves more to the imagination than first impression suggests. Think about it: Laura's actual death is barely glimpsed. Most of the scene is about Leland/Bob tormenting her and Ronette praying for help. The actual death lasts maybe 20 seconds, half of which are consumed by flashes of black. Most of the details established about the crime scene are never even shown: Leland writing the Fire Walk With Me note, the letter going under the fingernail, and especially all the weird rituals and torture we've been told about. Instead Lynch centers the scene around the decisions Laura makes just before her death.

 

I believe one of those key decisions is to bring the angel into the train car for Ronette. This is probably subconscious on Laura's part but throughout the movie we see her making contact with the spirit world through subconscious desires. I believe this is one of those instances and it makes perfect sense because the angel frees Ronette, who then opens the door to the train car, which allows the ring to roll in (and the ring on her finger is what triggers Leland/Bob's "Don't make me do this!"). Lynch is showing a psychological process - Laura's compassion overcoming her fear - visually. There are also a lot of spiritual components related to Lynch's essentially Hindu beliefs, but I'll save those for another occasion.

 

Now, whether Lynch should have made this clearer in the actual movie, whether he himself was fully conscious of what he was doing, whether this is enough of a satisfactory ending to the film, and whether it justifies showing Laura's murder again somewhat gratuitously is all debatable. But I think it's worth observing that as actually shot and edited, the final scene of Fire Walk With Me is redeemed from redundancy by showing us something that we actually haven't seen before: why and how Laura defeats Bob and her father, rather than simply becoming their victim.

 

That said it's taken me a while (and a lot of other viewpoints contributed various pieces) to reach this conclusion so I can definitely see how the end can feel like an unnecessarily literal depiction of Twin Peaks' central event. It's often felt that way to me too.

[LostInTheMovies]

Great podcast - I thought you guys did do justice to the episode.

 

Regarding Fire Walk With Me, I was going to say this in reader mail but maybe I'll just say it here and you can quote it (just the first paragraph, I mean) in a few episodes if you agree (it isn't totally relevant yet, since the main story is still going):

 

***

 

My advice to first-time viewers is watch everything. Even the worst parts of Twin Peaks give you a sense of the whole and inform the best bits. HOWEVER, if your attachment to the show is too casual or fickle to sustain a full watch, and you feel you're about to quit, AT LEAST skip ahead to the final episode (#30 by this podcast/Netflix, #29 on the discs) and Fire Walk With Me. Both will be somewhat confusing, but frankly they are the most full-on Lynchian parts of Twin Peaks so they will already be confusing even if you've watched the whole series. Any journey through Twin Peaks that doesn't include either of these entries in the saga is woefully incomplete, in my opinion.

 

***

 

As for the idea, mentioned on the podcast, of watching Fire Walk With Me directly after this episode...I've actually heard people recommend this as the best approach. I think it works well after the series (I even personally like watching the Missing Pieces as a gateway between series and film) but I can see how that would work. In particular, experiencing the full horror of Maddy's murder and Cooper's failure to catch the killer and then shifting into the tone of the next few episodes (and especially the ones that come after them) actually makes for a much more jarring emotional transition than jumping right into the movie.

 

Not saying I would recommend this approach myself but I can definitely see how it has a certain logic to it. There will be a fairly big - if cryptic and vague - spoiler for the final episode however. That said, if anyone first-time viewer ends up jumping directly from this episode into the film I'd certainly be interested in hearing your take on the experience. I've never heard from anyone who did this the first time, only people who did it later (although then again, I think I may have run across people who stopped watching after the killer's reveal and the next thing they watched was the film, but usually years passed in between).

 

You mentioned Fire Walk With Me building off the second season but (spoilers for second season),

  Reveal hidden contents

I think you'll be surprised to re-discover how the rest of the show plays out. Most of the stuff in Fire Walk With Me has more to do with the first and early second season than the rest of the series, with the exception of the final episode which sets the template for a lot of stuff Lynch will do in FWWM.

 

Even though there will be a lot of talk about the Black Lodge and White Lodge during the rest of the series, they are not explicitly tied to Bob until the second-to-last episode. Most viewers make the understandable logical leap that the mythology of the show's second half is linked to the supernatural images of the first half (I certainly did my first few times through the show) but in fact there's no real evidence that this is the case until the finale. At which point Lynch forces the issue by turning the Red Room into the Black Lodge and bringing back the Little Man and the giant. Then in Fire Walk With Me he goes even further, bringing back the creamed corn, the Tremonds, and the One-Armed Man, none of whom had been featured at all on the show since the Laura mystery ended.

 

Along the same lines, the phrase "Black Lodge" is never spoken at all in FWWM. The word "Lodge" sans the Black/White distinction, is mentioned once by Annie when explicitly referencing the events of the finale. This really surprised me when I reflected upon it recently because, like most fans, I just drew a line of continuity between series and film and assumed the spirit world of the movie fit in perfectly with the concept of the Black Lodge lore of season 2. But not only does Lynch drop the terminology, he makes it very difficult to distinguish who are the "Black" and "White" spirits in the movie. The Little Man, Phillip-as-Mike, and the Tremonds are all creepy and vaguely threatening but they serve a very positive narrative function for Laura.

 

Thus it's a bit ironic that Fire Walk With Me often gets castigated for "abandoning" the series. In fact, it brings back a lot of stuff that had been forgotten. For most of season 2, when the characters talk about Lodges and Project Blue Book and all that, it's completely unrelated to what came before. It ends up coming together in an interesting way, but had Lynch not directed the final episode and made the movie I think the first half of the series and the second half would feel like completely different TV shows, even more than they already do.

[Fingus]

So this showed up in my Twitter feed today...

[RagingLion]

This is my first time writing in these forums, partly because I started watching Twin Peaks only a month ago and have just caught up but also because this episode compels me write my rection to it.

 

In answer to Chris and Jake's wonderings on this epsidoe's podcast about how the main dramatic scene holds up ... heck yes it does!

 

This is my first time wacthing Twin Peaks and I really had no proper idea that Leland was about to be revealed as Bob, not at the first clip of him staring in the mirror before cutting back to the Roadhouse anyway.  I'd gotten that Bob would probably be some existing character morphing into him as of a few episodes back but as just as likely though this scene would be another vision of him from Sarah(?)'s viewpoint rather than a physical manifestation.  And yes, all signs seemed to point to Ben Horne, although I was thinking while viewing it that that seemed a bit too easy.

 

I just want to put across how much that scene was shocking and unsettling to me.  I haven't been made to feel that way by other bits of television or films harldy ever - and I don't have any equivalents coming to my mind right now.  Normally this kind of violence is seen in the aftermath or eluded to, but this confronts it head on.  The punches felt particularly brutal and shocking - I don't know why in terms of choreography/editing specifics they succeeded in feeling so different to an army soldier/superhero punching someone for the 100th time but they landed in a way that felt more real and savage.  It all felt exactly right for the character of Bob from what had been seen so far - the actions matched what had been learnt about him from the visions and the investigation into Laura's murder; which is why the prancing towards her from Leland's character made you know he was Bob and that was completely chilling.  Chilling is the word.  That scene will stay with me likely forever.

 

 

[Ozzie]

For some the first association with Twin Peaks are the traffic lights, for others the ceiling fan, hot coffee, cherry pie or whatever I wouldn't know about. For me it is the sound of the skipping needle.

[RagingLion]

Btw, I was sure the Japanese guy was Catherine from the first episode he suddenly appeared.  It was so obvious that there was an incredible amount of make-up being used and in a weird unnatural way too.  Also, it was obvious that Catherine was going to come back at some point so it made sense narratively.  Plus, them took the time last episode to give her scened specifically with Pete, which would have no reason for being otherwise.

[sclpls]

I can understand people not being stoked about some of these later episodes, but a lot of them really do cement in my mind what Twin Peaks is "really about" so I think its worth sticking through it even if there are some plot threads that are cheesy and horrible (but then again, what else is new?)

[mikemariano]

  On 2/5/2015 at 12:56 AM, sclpls said:

I can understand people not being stoked about some of these later episodes, but a lot of them really do cement in my mind what Twin Peaks is "really about" so I think its worth sticking through it even if there are some plot threads that are cheesy and horrible (but then again, what else is new?)

 

No everything sucks.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

That's not fair.  The episodes immediately after the Laura Palmer mystery with Mountie the Mustache are pretty good and it's good to see Cooper considering becoming a local.  Some of the plotlines that could have been disastrous, like Nadine's amnesia and Bobby's designs on Ben Horne, never get terrible—or at least any more terrible than they are at this point.  Even the absolutely rancid James storyline never infects Twin Peaks as a whole.

 

The biggest missed opportunities are the plots about Windom Earle and Josie Packard.  Josie is so poorly used and even more poorly disposed of.  Meanwhile Earle is just a cackling goofball.  Plus both of them have poorly-presented connections to the weird spirit side of Twin Peaks that really diminishes their power. "Coop, what happened to Josie?!" is the worst line of the series for me.  If they wrapped things up with Josie more poignantly and with more of an impact on Truman, and if Earle was genuinely insane or haunted by the Black Lodge—maybe as damaged as David Bowie in the film—Season 2 would have ended much more strongly.

[BobbyBesar]

A couple things about Tojamura don't make sense to me: I believe there's a brief aside where Ben sends Jerry to Japan to check out Tojamura's background to see if he's legit. IIRC, we even see a quick scene of them on the phone, and Jerry says he checks out. Does that mean that Catherine has a real Japanese secret society backer or something? Or just that Jerry is really terrible at his job? (Which he doesn't seem to be, because he found 2 sets of legit previous investors).

 

Also, Tojamura's disguise was so laughable, I pretty much immediately identified who it really was, and assumed that it was intentionally being played as a soap-opera-y farce. It's hard to know the context of the show and the unfamiliarity with asian actors during the time it originally aired though.

[mistercrayon]

Holy moly what an intense episode!

 

man they doubled down on going after Horne (it was odd that mike repeated his clue given that it seems in retrospect only accurate at that exact time - perhaps gerard was back with his meds but he was using mike’s voice). 

 

I liked Pete and Catherine’s moment of happiness as a taste of non misery between the awfulness. 

 

Leos new shoes show up a lot. 

 

The whole ole interaction between Shelly and Norma was really nice and then got crazy when nadine and ed showed up. I wonder how 18 year old nadine reconciles her one eye?

 

the old man at the hotel seems to show up when the giant does. I wonder if they are linked.  

 

So so many places have red curtains it’s ridiculous. Series 3

  Reveal hidden contents

It’s odd that nadine doesn’t have red curtains in her shop.

 

Does lelandbob attack Sarah 

Series 3

  Reveal hidden contents

It seems inconsistent that monster Sarah doesn’t absolutely evicerate him  maybe she gets monstered later rather than as a kid. Or the monster gets mature really late  

 

When everyone gets sad about stuff in the roadhouse James looks like he’s “what is this emotion”. 

 

Man harold took donnas stuff really bad. It seemed like an intense cleaning would be fine but I guess not. The whole thing felt like they had Harold for a day of filming and that was what they could do with him. Really weird

 

series 3 stuff. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Why does lynch like mouth drool as a tool. Not just with Leo here but also the jail guy in series 3. Gross. 

 

I really liked the progression Cooper has with Margaret. First meeting skeptical (I’m not chatting to your log) to bemusement at her house which moves to impressed due to the specificity of her comments (although still fairly broad imo). And now how she just says something cryptic re: the roadhouse and coop and the sheriff go down there (while Horne is in jail for the arrest of Laura’s murder!!) at the drop of a hat for beers with Margaret!